Chris Riback: Dr. Austin, thank you for coming to the studio. Thank you for having us at this incredible conference.

Dr. Leah Austin: Awesome. Thank you for inviting me to the studio and thank you all for being here.

Chris Riback: So give me the pitch, what is NBCDI and what do you hope for from a conference like this?

Dr. Leah Austin: NBCDI is a 52-year-old national organization focused on the healthy child development of black children. And our conference attracts over 500 educators. So in particular, we are providing educators with tools, with resources, with knowledge, anything they need so that they can be better in their roles as educators, improving the education and development of black children.

Chris Riback: And what are you hearing at the conference? What are the biggest concerns that people have?

Dr. Leah Austin: A couple of things we’re hearing. One, I would say that we’re hearing from educators that they need a space like this, that they actually need a place where they can go and they can focus on black children, especially in this time where we have a context where that’s not as easy as it one, should be and maybe used to be.

So that’s definitely feedback we’re hearing. And then some of the other challenges that we hear from educators are things around just materials and resources that they have available to them and just trying to be connected to partner organizations that can help them find the tools and resources that they need.

Something else we hear from our attendees is really around, they’re continuing to want to build a stronger relationship with parents, and it’s both a, I think a challenge and an opportunity that they’re seeking. And so they’re talking a lot about how can they partner with an organization like NBCDI so that they can actually engage and reach more parents as they’re fulfilling their mission to educate children.

Chris Riback: So the theme of this year’s conference is unleashing the promise and the genius of black children and families. What are some examples of genius that you are hearing about?

Dr. Leah Austin: So we’re really, really focused as an organization on ensuring that we talk about black children from a strengths-based, assets-based positive approach, and using positive and more accurate language, quite frankly. And we know that black children are often labeled in ways that aren’t really good for them and aren’t actually accurate to who they are in their development.

And so we’re heavily focused when we talk about black genius or the genius of black children, it’s really about understanding that we’re speaking about children that are between the ages of birth and eight years old. Right? So they’re young, early childhood. And so we’re really focused on just what does it mean to be a child during that stage of life. Right? There’s an innate joy, there’s a happiness, there’s a curiosity.

You want to know so much about the world. Their eyes are lit up, they’re so happy, so excited, and they just want to know and they’re hungry for more knowledge. And that’s a major factor in being a genius, right? Is really this curiosity to learn more. And we want to make sure that black children are not, that they don’t lose that.

And it often is lost because systems are not set up to support that joy and support that genius. So we see this kind of convening as an opportunity to really double down on the fact that that genius is there and it’s all of our jobs and our responsibilities to make sure that we preserve it and we promote it.

Chris Riback: And create the room and the space for it. You mentioned a moment ago a little bit, you kind of hinted at the political environment. What are the political realities that you’re seeing and what can you do to help contribute constructively to the political environment?

Dr. Leah Austin: Absolutely. So a major challenge, again, given our audience is really primarily educators, is that educators are very confused about what they can and cannot do, what they can and cannot say. And many are feeling powerless because they want to teach children about who they are. And it’s not just about black children seeing themselves in books, those resources. Those things absolutely matter because that’s the affirmation that helps them with their racial identity and their development.

But it’s also important for all children to see themselves and to see others so that we’re all expanded and so that when they grow up, they’re able to relate to different people because they’ve had this experience where they’ve both seen themselves and they’ve seen other people in their learning environments. And so that’s something that we hear from teachers, but they do. In this day and age, it’s very, very hard for them to figure out exactly how they do that.

Chris Riback: Yes.

Dr. Leah Austin: When they’re in a moment where they could literally lose their jobs if they say the wrong word or something that’s considered divisive. So what NBCDI has done is in addition to this convening and them being able to be here and share that and get resources, literally go to the vendors and buy books and get resources that they can use in their classrooms and at home with their families, we are also an advocacy organization.

And so we’ve done some work with our affiliate network around understanding the legislations that have passed and what the actual language means and where it does prohibit and where it actually doesn’t, things that they can do and say in Georgia. We hosted with our local affiliate, BCDI, Atlanta, a summit with GEEARS, our Georgia Early Education Alliance for Ready Students organization, and just talked honestly about how these concepts even got to the place where we, the people believed that they are divisive and what we can actually do in classrooms with teachers to change that.

Chris Riback: Let’s turn slightly, and I want to ask you about climate.

Dr. Leah Austin: Okay.

Chris Riback: You are part of the Early Years Climate Action Task Force. What is that task force? What inspires you to focus on climate? I thought we were talking about early education.

Dr. Leah Austin: Right. That’s a good question. So the task force is focused on the impact of climate change on our youngest people, our little ones, and understand just from the data that just by way of their age, right? This group of children are vulnerable, they are because they’re developmentally completely dependent on adults. And so what adults have to understand is that everything we do or we do not do impacts them.

And because they are physically developing at a different pace and in a different way than we are as adults, things like living in a neighborhood where there’s a factory that’s next door. Or I’m in Atlanta, so living in a neighborhood where literally a highway has been built and cuts through your neighborhood.

Chris Riback: Yes, it does.

Dr. Leah Austin: And you’re outside playing. You’re not just outside playing and they’re cars going by, you’re outside playing and there are emissions and toxic air that you’re now breathing in. And for a little person, there’s a lot of air that’s going into their bodies and is literally physically changing them. And so the task force is focused on what climate change means for the early years and for our youngest people.

Chris Riback: And if I’m not mistaken, you have some recommendations?

Dr. Leah Austin: There are some recommendations in the plan, yes.

Chris Riback: Give me a couple of those.

Dr. Leah Austin: Yep.

Chris Riback: And is it too early for progress or are you seeing any progress against any of those recommendations?

Dr. Leah Austin: Yes, I would share. One, is around supporting early learning centers. So we know that centers and schools are actually a place where there’s a lot of pollution and toxic air because of things like school bus, just in the way centers are often and schools are often built. And so there’s some recommendations there around rethinking how we use green space and even rethinking just the building of schools and just really making sure that they’re actually more appropriate in terms of the build out. I would say in terms of progress, I feel like there’s always some progress happening, but it’s very slow.

Chris Riback: Yes.

Dr. Leah Austin: And so we want to be hopeful and keeps sort of that positive mind, but it’s a slow and steady pace. And I think the fact that we’ve even, the progress that we’re really seeing is that we’re having the conversation, even to your point around the conversation of linking climate change to little people, that’s progress within itself. And now we have to take that conversation and actually put it into some action.

Chris Riback: So coming out of this conference and the 500 people from across the country and the ideas and the inspiration that you’ve heard, and I’ve gotten to hear as well, what’s next for NBCDI and what’s next for you?

Dr. Leah Austin: Oh, absolutely. So we want to keep growing our network and really seeing affiliates in every single state because we know that for so much of this work, the power, the advocacy power is at the state level. And so we want to make sure that we have leaders that understand, that respect our, not only our organization, but the lived experience and expertise of black people.

And so that’s definitely a next step for us and a goal that we have. I think for myself, it’s just continuing to build the organization, continue to amplify who we are, our voices and the voices of the network, and just making sure I have this dream and goal, I guess, dream that one day every single person will know the National Black Child Development Institute and will respect and understand it and be a part of it given its importance to black children – and that importance then being to the entire country.

Chris Riback: And if you had a governor or a state education secretary in front of you, is there a single message that you would give?

Dr. Leah Austin: The single message I would give is that we need to invest more in the early years and we need to invest more in ways that we just talked about very comprehensively. So yes, we need to invest more in their schools and the early childhood education component. We need to make sure that we are paying the workforce, actually paying them well so that they are not struggling themselves, but that they can really thrive and they can focus on the learning that they actually want to provide young children.

Chris Riback: Yes. Well, that’s a message that I think will be very clear to understand and your efforts through NBCDI are impacting communities across the country. Thank you for your work. Thank you for coming by the studio.

Dr. Leah Austin: Thank you for having me. This is wonderful.

Chris Riback: Dr. Bisa, thank you for coming to the studio.

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: Thank you. I’m enjoying being here already.

Chris Riback: Well, I hope it only goes up from here. It’s a lot of pressure you’re putting on me. Tell me about BCDI-Atlanta. What’s the community like?

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: We are the only actually affiliate in Georgia of the National Black Child Development Institute. And our community, I love that it’s so diverse because we have a lot of childcare providers, a lot of social workers, a lot of medical professionals, a lot of legislators and leaders who are part of our affiliate group. And so they’re members of the organization and/or they’re partners of the organization. So the community is amazing because people come together for the needs of Black children and families.

Chris Riback: Tell me about your three key focus areas: early care and education, literacy and family engagement. Tell me about the challenges and how you’re dealing with each one. Let’s start with early care and education.

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: Early care and education, our goal is to increase the diversity of early care and education, especially when it comes to leaders, and whether that mean in the boardroom or actually in leadership roles and positions, because we know that representation matters, and it’s not just about skin color, but it’s about the diversity and what you do and what you can bring in terms of information, advice, resources. So we know that diversity is key, but in Georgia specifically, we don’t have a lot of diversity, almost any, at the higher levels, if you will, especially at the state level.

We don’t have any state leaders of color, especially at the commissioner level. So it’s really important for us to breed leaders. So whatever we’re being told barrier-wise, why there aren’t diverse leaders, we are making sure that we support people in learning those skills. So we have fellowships, and we’re in a couple of programs to help early educators, anyone who’s in a child-serving program to improve their skills. Leadership-wise, educationally we’re helping them earn their credentials, and we’re coaching them through earning their first credentials and providing stipends and just so much to support.

And we’re also helping them to get on boards, develop a leadership profile and an advocacy profile so that they will know how to advocate for the needs of their community.

Chris Riback: And is that the early childhood education fellowship that you were just describing?

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: Yes.

Chris Riback: Or is that something else?

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: Yes. It’s called Expand ECE, Expand Early Care and Education. Yes.

Chris Riback: Tell me about the two other focus areas, literacy and family engagement.

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: Our role in literacy, we want to make sure that books are diverse as well, that children get to see. But it’s not just about the diversity of books. The big goal is to improve and increase the literacy skills. Our children not starting school ready to learn, the third grade reading scores are not where they should be. And we want to improve that. Third grade reading scores, unfortunately are connected to the prison rates.

Chris Riback: Connected to so much-

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: And we want to-

Chris Riback: … later on.

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: So much.

Chris Riback: All the data’s there.

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: Yes. So we want to get in there early and encourage children to read books. And we do that by allowing them to see themselves on the cover and in the books.

Chris Riback: You recently released the State of the Black Child Report Card for Georgia, and I took a look at it. Parts of that were tough to read. You have some challenges.

One of the recommendations was that you support positive discipline and an end to suspensions and expulsions. And I’ve read and talked with leaders like you about this topic, and one of the statistics that you cited from ProPublica: “While Black children comprise 37% of Georgia’s public schools, Black students are 3.6 times more likely to be suspended as white students.” Any student getting suspended like that hits at the heart, but it does happen more often with Black students. And I believe, you correct me if I’m wrong, Black boys in particular.

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: Oh, definitely Black boys, yes.

Chris Riback: What’s the why? And perhaps most challengingly, what can be done?

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: Yes. The why mainly is people don’t really know how to work with Black children and the challenges that they faced. Since COVID, everyone at this point, no matter where you are culturally or race-wise, you’ve experienced some type of trauma due to COVID-19, right? We were in our houses for a year. But Black children and families are often born in trauma, having experienced trauma. And so educationally, educators don’t always know what to do because the behaviors and the needs are not being met. They don’t know necessarily what to do. And it’s worse now because… I’ve heard the teachers call them COVID babies. That since COVID, they have far more children in their classroom with special needs, especially autism, and some have not been diagnosed.

So part of it is culturally and the challenges that the families face. And if you have a middle class teacher from a two-parent home, and then add the cultural piece to it that they have never experienced what you’ve experienced, they don’t know what to do other than suspend you or expel you from school.

Chris Riback: Is there an education opportunity there?

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: It’s definitely an education opportunity there. NBCDI started delivering on the promise. And so through delivering on the promise, that initiative, we were able to get legislation. I’ll say we passed the Senate, and then we pulled back, and we’re repurposing it because we didn’t want to cause some of the other previous legislation a problem. So now we’re working together to revise the legislation to provide wraparound services in schools. Before you can suspend a child, you have to provide them some type of services. So that’s what we’re working on now is legislation to support the educators.

Chris Riback: That’s a terrific idea. Maybe a step between a situation that could be taken in the wrong… Put some opportunity between that situation and the suspension. That doesn’t necessarily have to occur.

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: What can we do? Yes.

Chris Riback: What can we do? One other recommendation that you had that I wanted to ask you about: support social-emotional development and mental health of Black children. I’m hearing so much focus on this in Atlanta, but other communities that I’m getting to talk with. Has the problem gotten worse, or is the main problem a lack of historical focus on the issue?

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: It’s a little bit of both, but it’s definitely has gotten worse, especially since COVID. And the social-emotional piece is more proactive versus reactive. When we talk about suspension and expulsions, we’re being reactive. But if we support their social and emotional development early on, then we’re helping the child to know how to deal with their own emotions.

When you’re upset, it’s okay to be angry, but how do I handle my anger versus acting it out on someone else? So helping the children and helping the adults in their lives to help the children to know what to do when they have those feelings. Especially Black boys are often called aggressive, but also Black boys are adultified. There’s an adultification of Black boys, so they have all these duties they have to do, and they’re only five.

So there are so many reasons why social emotionally, they’re having the feelings and the actions, the behaviors that we’re seeing at home and at school. And so supporting and being proactive versus reactive with the social-emotional learning and development, professional development, that’s going to help everyone to know how to deal with children and support them in helping themselves.

Chris Riback: What a great message that is. Proactive and reactive.

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: Yes.

Chris Riback: You have your work cut out for you.

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: Yes, we do.

Chris Riback: Dr. Bisa, thank you for coming by the studio.

Dr. Bisa Batten Lewis: Thank you. I enjoyed it. Great conversation.

Chris Riback: Alycia, thank you for coming by the studio.

Alycia Baumgardner: Thank you for having me.

Chris Riback: So you are the undisputed, super featherweight champion of the world. What are you doing at a conference on early childhood learning?

Alycia Baumgardner: It was an opportunity for me to inspire and nothing better than coming to this conference to speak with the kids and just to be great people. I love what we’re doing here. And again, this is my first time, so I’m happy that I was able to be a part of something special.

Chris Riback: Tell me about your own education. You grew up in Ohio, you live now I believe in Detroit, but is Ohio where you went through school?

Alycia Baumgardner: Yes. Ohio’s where I went to school, where I started. And if I could remember back then, my childhood was a great childhood. The learning, the experience I was able to gain as a young child and just continued throughout my life.

Chris Riback: We all have that experience of that one teacher that was so meaningful to us. Maybe it’s not one, maybe you don’t remember her or his name, but did you have an experience like that? Is there a role that a teacher or a couple of teachers really played in your childhood?

Alycia Baumgardner: Of course. So if I could think of a teacher that inspired me, his name was Mr. Bates and he pointed me out one time and he was like, “You have some nice arms.” And I used to be self-conscious about my arms. He’s like, “Those are amazing arms.” And he was like, “What do you do?” I’m like, “Well, I box.” And he was like, “Be confident in who you are, be strong.” And he just made me believe more in who I was and that being confident in having arms like these was a good thing and not a bad thing.

Chris Riback: As you think about young children, as you think about black children in communities, you live in Detroit now, how important is helping any child gain confidence even at the earliest stages?

Alycia Baumgardner: It’s important that every child knows what confidence is. And when you know what confidence is, you’re able to know self. And I think it’s important that young children know who they are at a young age. That could be five years old and they’re speaking positivity into themselves. And I just know that it goes a long way. And I am nobody today if I didn’t have the confidence as a young child, as I did at five years old, six years old. And it’s just important that every kid can experience that. They are confident in who they are, what they look like, their skin color, their hair, their arms, their body shape. It’s important that kids are confident and continue to use that as they go into their adulthood.

Chris Riback: And just in listening to you, it’s making me realize that inspiration can come from anywhere. It can come from a world champion. It can come from a teacher. What did Mr. Bates, I assume that that was high school. What subject did he teach?

Alycia Baumgardner: He taught science.

Chris Riback: He taught science? Yes. The ability to talk with children, not just about academics, but about the whole child, the whole wellness. It’s got to be an important factor.

Alycia Baumgardner: It’s an important factor because everything is able to combine together. So when you have teachers who are speaking positivity, they’re giving confidence to these young kids at a young age, we’re able to carry that and that sticks with us. It stuck with me as an adult. Now I can speak on it and say that he inspired me along the way to love my arms and to keep building that confidence.

Chris Riback: What’s next for you?

Alycia Baumgardner: What’s next is continuing being the best that I can be, inspiring the youth. Inspiring just that next young girl who wants to come into the sport of boxing. Even the young boy who’s wondering what’s next. Boxing teaches discipline. Boxing teaches respect. It also teaches that confidence that I speak about, and it’s just important that I’m able to be a voice and an inspiration to the younger generations because we are setting the path. I’m breaking barriers right now in women’s boxing and young girls are able to grab a hold of that, and I didn’t have that growing up. So I’m happy that I can be a trailblazer to the younger generation coming up.

Chris Riback: Alycia, thank you so much for coming by the studio. Good luck to you in your future.

Alycia Baumgardner: Thank you.

Chris Riback: Kimberly, thank you for coming by the studio.

Kimberly Early: Thank you for inviting me.

Chris Riback: So tell me about BCDI-Seattle. What’s the community like?

Kimberly Early: So, BCDI-Seattle, we are an advocacy organization. We were founded in 1973 and our founder, she’s passed away, but her name is Bunny Wilburn. We advocate for public policy. We advocate for best practice. We advocate for change. And how does it impact African-American children and families? We want it to be in a positive way. We have a couple different fields that we’ve worked in. One being education, of course.

Chris Riback: Of course.

Kimberly Early: And one of the things that we’ve done in the past, we used to have an African-American hotline, parent hotline. So there’s so many children that are suspended or expelled from school, oftentimes Black children and you don’t know how to-

Chris Riback: Boys in particular.

Kimberly Early: We would have somebody who’s a trained advocate and help them. They would go to the meetings and help them go through the system.

Chris Riback: What a great resource that is, because I will say that concern, the suspension issue, which we’ve all read about, we’ve seen the data is such a challenge. And for each parent, there’s the emotional component. It’s totally new. They don’t know the system, the administrators know the system.

Kimberly Early: Yes.

Chris Riback: What a great resource that is to offer someone to help guide the parents through that system and advocate.

Kimberly Early: Yes, that was huge, because you don’t know. And then they’re a small printing and you’re like, “What am I supposed to do? Where am I supposed to be at?” So that was one of the programs we had with education. Another program we had is juvenile justice. And at Greenhill School it’s a juvenile rehabilitation center. We help folks who maybe they want to go back to school and pay for their college education. Another one was childcare, of course, because a lot of our members are in childcare and or education.

So we have a yearly conference that focuses on best practices. And we always have somebody who is African American or of African descent leading a workshop because oftentimes people will go, “Oh, I couldn’t find anybody. I didn’t know anybody.” So we don’t have that problem. And another one was child welfare. And one of the things that we’ve done in the past is have Black foster parents come together and we want to have this go through the legislature. So here’s some information we want to get done. So that’s some of the programs we’ve had. And I just want to say our tagline is like, “Who, if not us, and to take care of our children.”

Chris Riback: It sounds like not only a really robust platform, but really actionable and practical. It sounds like you’re combining the ideas and the education and the empowerment that comes with education, but with practical ability to attack the problems. Is that part of… Am I understanding it correctly?

Kimberly Early: Yes, because you want to make it simple. What can I do as a parent to push against this, push against the system and make it easy.

Chris Riback: To help my kids.

Kimberly Early: To help my kids and not make it easy. That’s something I can do, not something somebody else has to do. Because you want the parents or the community to advocate for themselves. Not, “Oh, somebody is going to save you,” you save yourself. And we’re there along the way to help you with that.

Chris Riback: Do you think that some of that has to do… Some of the advancement that it sounds like BCDI-Seattle has made and the practical tactical help that you give the parents? 1973 is a long time. I mean, you guys were at the forefront and Bunny was really something I bet of an innovator.

Kimberly Early: Yes, she was something else and was like, “This is what we are going to do for our community. And if it’s who not us, we need to be responsible for ourselves and our children.”

Chris Riback: So what’s next? What’s next for Seattle?

Kimberly Early: So one of the things that we’re working on now is working with our childcare providers of African descent. And I’ll give you a little history with that too.

Chris Riback: Please. I would expect so.

Kimberly Early: In 2018, National Black Child Development got in touch with us and they said, “We want to do a State of the Black Child Report Card.” And they were trying to do it in each state. And so in order to make that happen, they were like, “We’re going to come out there, we’re going to help with this, and we’re going to talk to politicians, we’re going to talk to community members, we’re going to talk to organizations and agencies,” and be like, “What are some issues you see? What are the issues as far as what Black children are concerned that you see that are impacting them in negative ways?”

So that was about 2018 through 2019. And then in November 2019, we released a State of the Black Child Report Card. So when we released that, it was at Miller Community Center and they said there’s these five different areas that are impacting children’s health, wellbeing, social welfare, and I’m going to read it from here real quick because I don’t remember all five.

Chris Riback: Go ahead.

Kimberly Early: And they were like… They highlighted racial disparities. So increased access to early childhood education for Black children. Number two, increase financial support for early childhood education programs. Three, ensure teacher diversity reflects the diversity of young children. Four, support positive discipline, practice in harsh discipline for Black children. And five, eliminate the racial achievement gap by equipping educators to respond to the needs of Black children.

So this day that we did the report card, we released it. We said, let’s look at these five things and let’s break it down even more. Like what would we do to increase access for early childhood education for Black children? What would that look like? So people got in groups and they talked about it some more, what can we do? What are some things we need to focus on? And so we took this information, we call it the purple wall, because it’s all this information on the wall and put that together.

And they said, “Let’s have a State of the Black Child Report Card task force to work on some things.” And one of the main things that came out, there were a couple different things, but they were like, “We want to take one of these or more than one and move forward in the community and work on it.” So that one was called educating decision makers in order to create a strong constituency. So what happened? And that was 2020 when Covid started. So they had to switch like everybody else, what we’re doing and how we’re going about it?

So for a year they met and they were like, “What we’re going to do is we’re going to send a survey to Black childcare providers to ask them, how is this impacting you as far as race is concerned, COVID is concerned, what are some issues that are coming up for you?” And we also gave the results of this survey to them as well. And there were three things that came out of this. One was what they wanted to do as a provider is they were saying, “We want to have open, transparent, and accountable work and needed to reverse institutional racism.” The other one is champion better in dynamic benefits for childcare providers. And the last one, the third one was stop the information overload.

Chris Riback: So that’s the childcare side. I want to hear quickly about what you’re doing on literacy.

Kimberly Early: So on literacy, we have Read to Succeed, and that’s another program from National Black Child Development Institute. And with that one, it’s about having children have cultural relevant books, being able to build their own libraries. And I’ll, oftentimes the children’s books can be pricey, like 20, $25. And we want children to see themselves reflected in ways that maybe they don’t see themselves at school.

One of the things we’re doing is adopting different childcare centers and family homes in Seattle and dropping off books like once a month, which we’re going to start next month. And also going to be doing some parent workshops and how do you make stories come to life? Another thing that BCDI Charlotte has, they have something about how do you see where your child is in reading? So we want to work with that program and adopt that one as well to bring that into life.

Chris Riback: The power of a conference like this, you get to learn from others and I’m sure plenty of people are learning from BCDI-Seattle. Kimberly, thank you so much for joining the studio. Thank

Kimberly Early: You so much. Appreciate your time.

Chris Riback: Dr. Fleming-Rife, thank you so much for joining the studio.

Dr. Anita Fleming-Rife: Thanks for having me.

Chris Riback: So I think we should start, tell me about your journey. I know that you are in Iowa now, but the history and the getting there I think helps tell the story about the present?

Dr. Anita Fleming-Rife: Absolutely, absolutely. I was born and raised in Des Moines, Iowa many years ago, and I was a product of Des Moines Public Schools back when Iowa was number one in the country in terms of education.

Chris Riback: Wow.

Dr. Anita Fleming-Rife: I left, went to undergraduate school in Colorado, did my doctorate at Southern Illinois. In 2004 I was conducting a study on Brown versus the Board of Education. It was the 50th anniversary of Brown. And in doing my literature review, I read that African-American children were doing better in the South on every academic measure than African-American children in the North. And so I said, “Well, let me look up Iowa’s data.” And I was just blown away that we were so low, we were no longer number one, and African-American children were at the bottom rung of the ladder on every academic measure. And at that point I said, “When I retire, I’m going home.” So I came home in 2015.

Chris Riback: Well, you may have, quote, retired, but I know that you are-

Dr. Anita Fleming-Rife: The only difference between working and the work that I now do is there’s no paycheck involved, but it’s from my heart, it’s something I believe that I owe to the children. I was just the beneficiary of a great education, and I think every child should have that. Every child is entitled to that.

Chris Riback: For sure. Before I ask you about what you are doing today in Iowa, what happened in those years between when you were in elementary school, high school in Iowa, and when you looked at the data again in 2004? What happened in there?

Dr. Anita Fleming-Rife: I can look at Iowa specifically, it’s only my view that Iowans valued education, and I mean at the state level, the state legislators. It was a part of our DNA. I no longer think that’s the case. And so I look back at the education that I received. For example, I never heard that African-American children didn’t do well on tests. I never heard that. We are also the originators of the Iowa test of basic skills, ITBS. Kids all over the country took that. Everybody did well on that test. So there’s, I think, a lower expectation. I hear a lot of stories that really have no basis in the research, such as, “Poor children don’t do well.” I’ve always known poor children and many of them have gotten law degrees from Yale and Princeton and-

Chris Riback: Went to do just fine.

Dr. Anita Fleming-Rife: I think the community has disintegrated. So there’s not that sense of community or that sense of a village being present to support these young mothers and people who do not have the necessary resources. Yes.

Chris Riback: So tell me about the Iowa Village, the NBCDI, Iowa Village. What are you doing there?

Dr. Anita Fleming-Rife: Des Moines Public Schools, if I can share this with you first to backend to it some more.

Chris Riback: Please.

Dr. Anita Fleming-Rife: So I have continued to read the data. I started going to school board meetings, I connected with the school board members, the school superintendent, to find out what those issues were. Des Moines Public Schools, for example, has since 2014, recognized that there was a serious problem with African-American males. And so they started monitoring males of color. Not just African-Americans, but Hispanics and African-Americans. And so they’ve done that. Two or three times a year, they put on a report, and every year we find out since 2014 that we’re still at the bottom of the barrel. So they have not said, “Okay, we need to do this to remedy the problem,” but they just keep looking at it, not fixing it, not putting forth any efforts. The same way with regards to reading and math.

That’s where the children, I think are not being served. So I had heard about NBCDI maybe 40 years ago or so, and I started looking at it as a source to help us help the children. We have focused on reading literacy. So this summer we started out with a reading literacy program. Summer, we had four volunteers, two were teachers, and one, in fact, the chair of the committee holds a major position at a major corporation. Another-

Chris Riback: So you’re really getting people involved?

Dr. Anita Fleming-Rife: People involved, their own time, their own resources, come to the schools and work with these kids directly. So we’ve gone beyond providing books to really sitting down, showing up and sitting down with these children.

Chris Riback: And the parents have to appreciate that?

Dr. Anita Fleming-Rife: And the parents do appreciate that, and we’re getting them involved as well. Yes.

Chris Riback: The parental involvement combined with the schools, it takes all of that. Yes. Well, I’m sure that everyone is very happy that you’ve returned to Iowa. We’re happy that you came by the studio. Thank you for making the time.

Dr. Anita Fleming-Rife: Thank you so much for having me.

Chris Riback: Melicia, Antonio, thank you so much for coming to the studio.

Antonio Freitas: Of course. Thank you for having us.

Melicia Whitt-Glover: Yes.

Chris Riback: So Antonio, let’s start. We all know, obviously the Sesame Street Show. We all love the Sesame Street Show. Outside of the show, what are the educational experiences that the Sesame Workshop focuses on?

Antonio Freitas: Yes, so Sesame Street has been for more than 50 years innovative in terms of tethering education to entertainment. And the way that we’ve been able to build beyond the television show is to extend it in both US and international spaces where education is a key way to engage everyone in the neighborhood.

Chris Riback: The heart of your presentation here at the conference is Whole-Child Wellness. What’s your message?

Antonio Freitas: Yes, we want children to know that the world around them can be a safe, fun place with caring grownups and friends to grow, to build smarter, stronger, kinder communities, one relationship at a time. And together with resources and people from around the United States, we’ve been able to bring these resources through those articles, storybooks or even games and videos to children and caregivers and providers across the US to know what that looks like.

Chris Riback: Melicia, the Council on Black Health, what is it and how do you connect with the Sesame Workshop?

Melicia Whitt-Glover: Sure. So we’re a national research and action network, and our focus is on improving health in black communities. And one of the ways that we can do that is looking at the social determinants or the things that impact health that are outside of just direct health, and one of those things is education. And so we’ve been excited to partner with Sesame Street to be able to distribute some of their health education materials that are focused on children and their parents as it relates to positive experiences, going to the doctor, healthy habits and things like that.

Chris Riback: And do you then work with the parents? Do you work with children? Do you work with educators? I imagine it’s a 360 situation.

Melicia Whitt-Glover: All of the above. So we distribute the materials to whoever we can get them to. So we did a couple of appearances at schools where we gave the books directly to children, but those books are designed for their parents to be able to read them to the children. And so in that way, you get the parents and children together. We’ve also, with training from Antonio, trained some care providers, including at childcare centers as well as health facilities and health centers to be able to distribute the books when they see patients and children.

Chris Riback: And Antonio, I went to the website, the page that has all of those resources. It’s incredible material.

Melicia Whitt-Glover: Thank you.

Chris Riback: What kind of feedback do you get from parents?

Melicia Whitt-Glover: Just that this is something that is needed. It is wanted, it is appreciated. We really trust guidance from experts like Melicia and her team to really get as implementation experts and partners in the field, this work out there in a way that is meaningful.

Chris Riback: So is there a feedback loop between the Sesame Workshop and the local organizations?

Antonio Freitas: Melicia and her team has been able to build up a Train The Trainer program where we’ve been able to guide them in the use of our resources and in recommended ways to share them with everyone in the neighborhood. And so we’ve been able to have feedback loops where we’ve learned what’s working, what’s not, and how to refine the craft so that everybody can benefit from it.

Chris Riback: Melicia, you’re out there locally doing the work every day. You’re really where the rubber meets the road, I would assume. What does it mean to have an organization like Sesame Workshop? The resources, the availability, and you tell me if I’m wrong, the open ear for feedback, positive or negative?

Melicia Whitt-Glover: Sesame Street Workshop has a huge name, and so it’s been incredibly helpful to have that partnership and to have the resources that we can disseminate. There’s already a known name, and so when people see Sesame Street, there’s a lot of credibility there. And then there are materials that we’re providing from a trusted source. But what’s been really exciting to people is when they are able to say, “Can we get this in different languages?” And Sesame Street has been very open in saying, “That’s a great point.”

And so it feels like we’re all in this together, all trying to improve the health of children. And when you’re all part of one team, people have ownership, that helps to spread the message.

Chris Riback: I know I’m stating the obvious, parenting is really hard work. And there is, in our formal institutions, not a lot of education on how to be a parent. What would be the most important thing you would want parents to know about whole-child wellness, about understanding what that means, about maybe even one or two tips of what parents could do because it’s hard work and too often the education opportunities aren’t there?

Melicia Whitt-Glover: Yes. I will say that speaking for myself personally as a parent, what has been a tip that I’ve been able to give myself is to remember when I was a child and what I felt and to be that parent or to be that person for my child that I wanted. And I’ve also learned that it is helpful for children to know that it’s okay to make mistakes. As a parent, I’m going to make mistakes. As a child, they’re going to make mistakes. Those things don’t define you, but that we will learn and grow together.

And I tell my children, “This is the first time I’ve ever been a parent.” Every time you do, “This is the first time you’ve done it. This is also the first time I’ve done it. We’re going to learn together.” And I think if more parents could just understand that they don’t have to be perfect. We might not get it right, but we keep trying every day. And if we can remember that what we needed as children, that’s the same thing that our children need, I think that could help.

Chris Riback: I am personally grateful for that permission to make mistakes. I seem to fulfill that expectation every day. Antonio, to close out, what’s next for Sesame Workshop?

Antonio Freitas: We have a whole lot of really fun projects that are coming along. We’re extending out our Emotional Well-Being initiative in a couple of different spaces and then exploring what the work can look like in both in-person and virtual settings. Really making sure that we prepare everyone in the neighborhood to build smarter, stronger, kinder kids, one relationship at a time.

Chris Riback: I lied. I have one more question.

Antonio Freitas: Ready. Ready.

Chris Riback: Other local organizations, they should go to your website, they should reach out to you to be able to access those resources?

Antonio Freitas: Yes. All of our resources live for free on sesame.org. There’s a wealth of different things, over 2,000 different topics across 30 different pages to provide resources for everyone in the neighborhood and the ways they like to learn and live.

Chris Riback: Thank you both for the work that you do. Thank you for coming to the studio.

Antonio Freitas: Thank you.

Melicia Whitt-Glover: Thank you.

Chris Riback: Dr. Govan-Hunt, thank you so much for coming by the studio.

Dr. Devonya Govan-Hunt: Absolutely. Thank you for inviting me.

Chris Riback: So I really enjoyed getting to read about you before this conversation. There’s much I want to talk about, BCID Carolinas. But one thing that really struck me, you’ve lived in Charlotte now for, I guess, about 10 years, something like that. And in only that time, you’ve already served as the site coordinator for the Dell Curry Foundation and assistant director for the Wellesley Child Development Center, and then became a child development specialist, the president of the Mecklenburg Childcare Association, co-chair of the … The list goes on and on and on. Why is this work so important to you?

Dr. Devonya Govan-Hunt: That’s a great question. I am one of those individuals who truly believe that I am walking in my purpose. So I look at it as some of the experiences that I had growing up, various school districts, various countries, various states, and seeing some of the same issues across borders, it became very apparent to me early on that this wasn’t a coincidence and that maybe I was put here on this earth to actually help change things, to work in systems change. And I feel like I can best serve that purpose in the field of early childhood education.

Chris Riback: Be the change you want to see.

Dr. Devonya Govan-Hunt: Absolutely. This is passion work for me.

Chris Riback: And what’s the root cause of the challenges around early childhood learning that you come across?

Dr. Devonya Govan-Hunt: Mindsets. And what I mean by that is unfortunately we all exist in a system that was built, I don’t care what country you’re in, where you in, on systemic racism, where socioeconomic status is a challenge, where race is a challenge. It doesn’t have to be, but it is. So there are mindsets that exist around early childhood education where it’s looked at as babysitting. It’s not that important. “Oh, the kids are so cute.” But people don’t understand that right here we’re building a foundation for future academic success, and that’s at the root of systems change. Once we can massage people and get them to understand how critical early childhood education is, how important it is for the future success of all of our children, whether they’re in class together or not, and how supporting people who are in early childhood spaces is, then it’s going to be a challenge.

Chris Riback: So tell me about the work that you are doing locally, and I understand soon to expand beyond Charlotte to capture all of the Carolinas, I think. What areas are you focused on?

Dr. Devonya Govan-Hunt: We are focused in five different buckets of work, and that’s going to sound like they’re all over the place, but they really do connect to surround the whole child. So we take a whole child approach. So we focus on families. We center lived experiences. We center the genius that parents bring as their child’s first and most important educator to this conversation. We focus on policy, because we understand that in order to make differences, policies have to be written differently in order to protect our children, health and wellness, literacy, and then, of course, early childhood education itself.

Chris Riback: You are a statewide leader to eliminate harsh and unfair disciplinary action in preschools.

Dr. Devonya Govan-Hunt: Yes.

Chris Riback: Now I have read about this, and I’ve talked to people like you who work on it and study it in high school. And this is, maybe you’ll correct me if I’m wrong, I think especially challenging for black boys. I’ve read about it, heard about it around high school, around middle school, around elementary school. You’re talking about preschool. What is that reality and what does it mean when a child and their parents experience that at such a young age?

Dr. Devonya Govan-Hunt: Absolutely, and it’s difficult to even say. We do this work every day, and I still get choked up when we say that-

Chris Riback: It’s difficult to hear about.

Dr. Devonya Govan-Hunt: … three-year-olds are being suspended from their early learning environments. What does that mean? That means that our black children don’t make up the majority of our preschool population, but they make up the majority of out-of-school or out-of-center suspensions and expulsions. It means that our children are being adultified. That means that we have people in classrooms that have been conditioned by a system that was built on systemic racism to look at our black babies in a particular light. They are displaying some of the same behaviors that are developmentally appropriate, that may not go across as developmentally appropriate when they do it, but when they’re counterparts that don’t look like them necessarily do it, then it’s a different response or reaction.

Sometimes it’s intentional, sometimes it’s not. And what happens is we get a child who is suspended from an early learning environment, that changes that child’s trajectory. So now we talk about when we cross them over into the K-12 system, a kid who’s already learned that this is not a place for them. School and education is not a place for them. We’ve got a family who struggles with economics because now you’ve got to take time off from work to find another early learning environment. So it’s a domino effect. It’s one that people don’t like to talk about. They don’t think that it exists, but we have numbers. A large number of our children, percentage of our children, are being pushed out of their classrooms and not being protected.

Chris Riback: This makes me think about the mindset that you mentioned. What can be done?

Dr. Devonya Govan-Hunt: We all have to be brave enough and willing enough to say it out loud. I have this conversation with my team. I have this conversation with the state level leaders that we work with around this topic on a regular basis. Just because we have taken the for colored signs only from off of buildings, we’ve taken signs off of water fountains, it does not mean that we’ve arrived. We still have work to do. We still have to be able to name barriers that exist and why they exist. We have to be willing to say that we are going to walk in equity, we’re going to share power, we’re going to center people first, and we’re going to hold each other accountable. We’ve got to be willing to do that first out loud. We have to love all of our babies first if we’re going to shift mindsets.

Chris Riback: And what kind of reaction do you get from policymakers?

Dr. Devonya Govan-Hunt: We get, “Yes, you’re right,” or “Absolutely correct,” but still nothing. Sometimes they make efforts to do something different, and sometimes they just don’t get it because there’s a disconnect between head knowledge and heart knowledge. So once we’re able to figure out, we know what we need to do in order to support early childhood education, we know what we need to do to make sure that all of our children, particularly speaking our black and brown babies, have a just and equitable future, we know what it takes to do that, but we have to be moved to do something different. So that’s what I mean by the head knowledge and the heart knowledge. We’ve got to connect that.

Chris Riback: And what’s next for BCDI Carolinas? What’s next for you besides, I guess, raising two daughters who I’m willing to bet might be running Charlotte someday?

Dr. Devonya Govan-Hunt: We’ll see what happens.

Chris Riback: We’ll wait on that.

Dr. Devonya Govan-Hunt: We’ll wait on that part.

Chris Riback: More immediately, what’s next for BCDI Carolinas and for you?

Dr. Devonya Govan-Hunt: Absolutely. So next for BCDI Carolinas is to continue to build a groundswell of support. It is our responsibility to arm our community, our families, our parents first, and our early education leaders with the resources and information they need in order to advocate for themselves. We feel like if we can take a ground-up and a top-down approach, we might get to where we need to be quicker. For me, I’m going to continue to learn, to listen to our elders, to listen to our community members so that I am speaking the right message, I’m fighting for the right things, I’m standing in the right places, I’m sitting at the right tables in order to help massage things and put folks who need to be in the room in the room.

Chris Riback: I am certain that that’s where you will be and that you will be doing that work ground-up, top-down, heads and hearts.

Dr. Devonya Govan-Hunt: Absolutely.

Chris Riback: Thank you for coming to the studio.

Dr. Devonya Govan-Hunt: Absolutely. Thank you for having me, and thank you for listening.

Chris Riback: Hotep, thanks for coming by the studio.

Hotep: Thank you for having me, Chris, it’s a pleasure.

Chris Riback: What is Black Lion and Cubs?

Hotep: So Black Lion and Cubs is a family friendly anime series, more of a culture and art movement that I created, centered around a father and his two children. It’s something that was motivated by fatherhood. Because I became a father four years ago and my children were excited about some of the things I was sharing with them that I grew up on in the 80s. I decided that I could create what they were seeing in a way that was fashioned to represent characters that looked like them and that was also more family friendly, because a lot of the cartoons and anime back then and today were a little too violent.

Chris Riback: Yes, a lot of violence.

Hotep: Yes, a lot of violence.

Chris Riback: And what are the themes that you carry through the narrative? What are some of those lessons that you want to pass on to your cubs?

Hotep: Being a former teacher myself, I’m studied in the things necessary for human development. And one of the big things that I’ve come to understand that’s important is confidence, self-esteem, belief in oneself, all the things that we call in education now, social-emotional learning. Competency, right, that competency. So I wanted to teach those types of lessons to my children at a very early age and help them grow up and develop those types of competencies. It was something that Frederick Douglass said that struck me the most. He said, “It’s easier to build strong children than to repair broken men.” And that statement resonated a lot with me, not only as an educator, but now as a father, making sure that I build them strong so that we don’t have to do the repair work that we hear in society, all the mental health and the self-care. All that’s a reactive response to something that could be proactively built in a human being.

Chris Riback: What are some of the episodes in Black Lion and Cubs?

Hotep: So I have two series, two separate series that have already been developed. The first one is called Valley of the Kings. Valley of the Kings is centered around Black Lion and his cubs as they travel throughout North Africa on behalf of the Pharaoh of Upper Egypt, who has sent them to find his queen who has been captured, if you will, kidnapped by the king of Lower Egypt. And so, they’ve been warring for some time, and now the queen is caught up in the middle and Black Lion and cubs have been deployed to help find her. So they traveled to a lot of historical locations in North Africa between Nubia and Egypt.

The second series is called, Sands of Time. Sands of Time is a more interplanetary story where the heroes, once again are called upon by the family of the kingdom of Upper Egypt, but this time the queen. The king of Upper Egypt has fallen ill and now she sends them across the universe to find the ingredients to make a mystical elixir-

Chris Riback: Wow.

Hotep: … to come back and bring him back to health.

Chris Riback: Now you mentioned previously that your kids right now are four and two-years-old.

Hotep: That’s correct.

Chris Riback: So the two-year-old, we’ll forgive him or her if they haven’t seen it. But has your four-year-old seen any of the shows?

Hotep: Oh, yes, both of them have.

Chris Riback: Both of them have.

Hotep: Both of them have.

Chris Riback: How did they react?

Hotep: Oh, they love it. I mean, because first and foremost, the characters are fashioned after them, if you will, so they can relate in the fact that. And they’re named after my children, so that’s number one.

Chris Riback: What are their names?

Hotep: Salahdin and Osaro are their names. So we have Super Salahdin and Awesome Osaro, are the two cubs. So while some kids today know of the newest singers or rappers, or athletes, my children don’t know who these people are, but they know who King Khufu was or King Ramses. They know about Nubia and Egypt, so real historical places and people that is going to bring them a closer awareness to their own culture and history. And so even my two-year-old, to that point, He, “That’s King Ramses,” or, “That’s King Khufu.” He knows it. Or, “That’s a pyramid, a sphinx.” He knows these words and knows these items even at two.

Chris Riback: Well, you’re also quite an entrepreneur. Where can people see the anime, see your work? And what other reaction do you get outside of your immediate family?

Hotep: Oh, well that’s why I’m excited to be here. I wasn’t sure outside of the family what kind of response I would get, but I had the pleasure of being distributed, my cartoon being distributed on a streaming service known as Black Education Station. It’s a streaming service, much like Netflix and Disney, but it’s been created by Black people and all the content features Black people in a prominent role. And so, on Black Education Station they’re in the forefront. They’re the hero and-

Chris Riback: They’re the protagonist.

Hotep: They’re the protagonists. And there’s no ads. The great thing about Black Education Station-

Chris Riback: Oh.

Hotep: … there’s no ads, different from YouTube, if you will. So my cartoon is distributed exclusively on that network. But outside of that, being here at a conference like this and being able to share with people Black Lion and Cubs and test the market, if you will, the response has been overwhelming. It’s almost as if people have been starved or are thirsty and when they see the characters and the beautiful artwork, they’re like, “Oh, my God, my child watches anime and you don’t see in the anime space, you don’t see many African-American characters or Black characters.” And so for people to see that the response has been overwhelming. I tell people that I’m working on making Black Lion and Cubs the next biggest thing since Dragon Ball Z.

Chris Riback: Well, I know Dragon Ball Z. I have a kid who was of the age when that was particularly popular. Let me say, if you can be half as popular as Dragon Ball Z, that would be an incredible accomplishment.

Hotep: Well, Chris, I’m grateful to you to have this kind of opportunity to share with your audience and others that it exists, it’s here, it’s an alternative. And like you said, if I make it halfway there, my brother, I’m doing well. Doing well.

Chris Riback: Feels to me like you’re doing okay. And even if we didn’t think so, it sounds like you’ve got at least two cubs who think you’re doing pretty well.

Hotep: My brother. Yes, sir. And that’s what it’s all about. That’s what it’s all about.

Chris Riback: Thank you for coming by and talking with us.

Hotep: Thank you. Thank you.

Chris Riback: Kumani, thanks for coming by the studio.

Kumani Bey: Thank you for having me.

Chris Riback: So you are a youth speaker at this conference?

Kumani Bey: Yes, I am.

Chris Riback: What did you get to speak about?

Kumani Bey: I got to speak about Black children and their very little access to technology compared to white children in America, and just the disparity of access that we have and how it’s been affecting our community.

Chris Riback: Have you seen that in your own schools and what has the effect been?

Kumani Bey: I have, it’s the resources in general. It’s the resources that not only are we disadvantaged, but we just don’t even know the resources that we’re not getting access to. And we’re not even aware of the amount of opportunities that we’re not given. And it’s important because as someone who does have the access and someone who is in that light, it’s upsetting to see the amount of people around me that look like me and that want to do the same things as me, but they don’t have the access to. And it’s hard to feel okay with that, knowing that there’s so many colored and brown and Black people out there who want to be doing things and who want to be given this access. They just don’t even know the amount of things that they’re not able to do because they don’t have it.

Chris Riback: And I understand that you personally make very good use of the technology that you do have access to.

Kumani Bey: Yes.

Chris Riback: You like creating.

Kumani Bey: I love creating, yes.

Chris Riback: So tell me about that. You create poetry, I believe, you write.

Kumani Bey: Yes.

Chris Riback: And you’re something of a filmmaker as well.

Kumani Bey: Yes. I started my own film production company a couple years ago called AOD Films. And with that I have been producing films, creating movies that I’m able to show off and able to put out in the world and show other people things that they know they feel inside their hearts. They just don’t know how to express it. And that’s also what I like to do with my poetry as well.

Chris Riback: So tell me about one of the films. What is an example of a story that you like to tell?

Kumani Bey: Yes. The latest thing that I’ve done is a mini-documentary that talks about women and the treatment that we get in the world right now. And how it’s so normalized that nobody even talks about it and we just tolerate disrespect. And so I’ve brought together a group of women that I know and I asked them about their stories with this experience and the way that they’ve been treated. And I just built this documentary where I talk about my experience. I chose one of my friends to talk about hers, and then I just had these women at the end that are being shown that you’re supposed to say my name, not whatever else you want to call me, or whatever else you want to say to me. And that’s the name of the documentary, Say My Name.

Chris Riback: What kind of reaction have you gotten to it and how does doing that work change you?

Kumani Bey: A lot of people have seen it and just come to me with all their stories, “Yes, I was yelled at the street. Yes, my boss told me this.” And just all these people telling me, all these women telling me just how normalized it is in their lives to be called certain things and treated a certain way. And it only makes me want to do this more. And it only makes me want to talk about my own experiences more and just be even louder with what I know since not everyone else is going to be.

Chris Riback: Yes, start loud and get louder.

Kumani Bey: Yes.

Chris Riback: What does AOD stand for?

Kumani Bey: It stands for Age of Destiny. My name Kumani means destiny. And I knew I wanted my name in it somehow. I just didn’t know the meaning behind what I wanted to be saying. And so with Age of Destiny, it’s saying this is the age of my life. This is the age of everyone’s lives where we are working towards what we are made of and what we are supposed to be doing here. And you can’t work on your purpose if you’re not working on the little things that bother you and the little things that you know are inside of you that you aren’t expressing. And so with my movies and my stories, I’m expressing little things that people aren’t really touching on so that they’re able to move past them and work towards their destiny.

Chris Riback: There is so much power in the little things.

Kumani Bey: Yes, definitely.

Chris Riback: For any children or any young person who might be watching this, who might be seeing you and saying, “I want that voice.” And I don’t have that ability, or I can’t, or there’s not the opportunity for me, but I’m looking at Kumani and I’m saying I want to be like her. What do you say to them?

Kumani Bey: Do it, but in your own way. Figure out how you want to. Do it in the way that you know how to. I know that growing up, I wanted to be a dancer. I wanted to be a lawyer, I wanted to be a doctor. I didn’t know how I wanted to create and how I wanted to put out. And I’ve been writing since I knew how to write probably at two months old. I’ve been writing my entire life. And it never occurred to me that that is the way that I like to create. And so it’s really just about going inside of yourself and figuring out how do you like to do things. What do you like to do? And in that way, that is the way you’re able to put out your voice and that is the way that other people are going to hear you because that’s what you like to do.

Chris Riback: Well, we are hearing you today and I have every feeling that we are going to get to hear you for years to come as you get louder and louder.

Kumani Bey: Yes, definitely.

Chris Riback: Kumani, thank you for coming by the studio.

Kumani Bey: Thank you.

Chris Riback: Dr. Johnson, thank you for coming by the studio.

Lee Johnson III, PhD: Thank you for having me.

Chris Riback: What is the NBCDI Policy Fellowship?

Lee Johnson III, PhD: The NBCDI Policy Fellowship is an 18-month program for leaders that are black, who are responsible for programs across communities, who are focused on making sure that the leadership at the national level reflects the population being served. I was part of the inaugural cohort of fellows-

Chris Riback: Yes.

Lee Johnson III, PhD: Which there were six of us, the only guy in that cohort. And now we have our second cohort, which is made up of 14 fellows of incredible early childhood and policy leaders from across the country. And the Policy Fellowship is really rooted in this model called Breakthrough Action Leadership that really focuses on being responsible, being self-reflective as a leader, and then also creating collective leadership, which is essentially encouraging others to be responsible and self-reflective as well.

Chris Riback: Why is climate such an important focus area for you?

Lee Johnson III, PhD: From an early childhood perspective, we know that when young children are developing, particularly in the ages from birth to age eight, there is so much rapid brain development that is occurring. And so their exposure to toxins and either lead or challenges around navigating flooding or even navigating storms, it can actually disrupt the very development of young children as they’re navigating those experiences. And so it’s very important for parents, but also folks on the policy level to know and understand that there is no substitute for a secure attachment relationship. And during that attachment relationship being formed between the child and the caregiver, we want to make sure that that process is not interrupted.

And so navigating climate really adds on to a very adventurous moment in childhood, but also, understandably so, children are learning and figuring out the world around them, how to navigate it, and oftentimes climate and the impacts of climate can devastate their communities, can uproot their families, and can cause trauma.

Chris Riback: And so many of the words that you just used, the adventurous and changing, obviously we all feel that with climate right now. It seems to be changing every day and it too often is one heck of an adventure. What about things like water and other health related, climate related, but health related impacts? Are those also areas that you focus on?

Lee Johnson III, PhD: Absolutely. So at the National Black Child Development Institute, and you’ll notice at our conference this year, there’s a graphic. The graphic really speaks to our eight essential outcomes for black child development, one of which is that we envision a world where every black child can breathe clean air and drink clean water.

Chris Riback: Yes, breathing the air as well. Yes.

Lee Johnson III, PhD: Yes. Yes. And it is so important. We’ve seen the news of the wildfires, but we also recognize that many of the particles that are invisible to the naked eye can find their way into the water sources that our children drink.

Chris Riback: Yes.

Lee Johnson III, PhD: We also know that even just the pipe structures in old homes and old buildings-

Chris Riback: The lead.

Lee Johnson III, PhD: Or the lead can be a contributing factor to neurodevelopmental challenges of young children.

Chris Riback: So is part of your remit helping educate parents and help them be aware? Because parenting is hard enough without also having to figure out, “What are my pipes? Where am I getting my water from? What’s the quality of the air in my community? Which by the way, I can’t control anyhow.” Is it about educating parents, helping empower parents with knowledge, and/or is it about influencing policymakers?

Lee Johnson III, PhD: I would say it’s both, and. And the reason I say that is I often share with my colleagues and friends and parents who are friends, is that childhood is not an adventure we choose, but it is chosen by adults familiar and forever unknown through the experiences they create for us. And so when I think about what we’re doing when we’re sharing knowledge or raising awareness about the impact of climate on the development of young children, particularly young black children, it is a point of education. It is an opportunity to equip them with the resources so that they can connect with their policymakers and really influence them.

As we know, policymakers live and breathe on hearing from their constituents. And so it’s really critically important for parents to know, understand, and recognize how critically important it is to grasp these issues, but also really speak to the urgency of the moment that we’re all in if we do not act from a policy space.

Chris Riback: And as you mentioned at the start, you were once one of the members of the cohort, you were a student. Was it cohort one you were a part of?

Lee Johnson III, PhD: Cohort one as a policy fellow.

Chris Riback: You correct me if I’m wrong now, you run the darn thing?

Lee Johnson III, PhD: I do.

Chris Riback: Which is more fun, being a student [inaudible 00:05:59] or running it?

Lee Johnson III, PhD: I would say they’re equally fun because-

Chris Riback: You’re sounding very political Senator.

Lee Johnson III, PhD: I will tell you, I am a student of life. I am constantly learning about this wide, wondrous thing, human existences. As a student or as a fellow in the cohort, you have your fellows that you can learn from, glean off from, get energy from, challenge, coach, and really navigate experiences of leadership that many of them absolutely understand. Being on the other side, I actually carry the stories that they shared with me into how we lead the program now, how we understand the nuance and context of what our current cohort is navigating and faced with and challenged with. So I find joy in both the carrying of the stories that I learned in cohort one, but actually applying the lessons from those stories to lead more effectively for cohort two and beyond.

Chris Riback: Well, those are wonderful lessons to be a student of life and to find joy as you just described. Dr. Johnson, thank you for your work. Thank you for coming by the studio.

Lee Johnson III, PhD: Thank you for having me.

Chris Riback: Kerron, thanks for coming to the studio.

Kerron Kalloo: Chris, it’s great to be here.

Chris Riback: And thank you for inviting us to this conference. It’s been fantastic.

Kerron Kalloo: Excellent.

Chris Riback: What is the National Village Network? How does it work?

Kerron Kalloo: The National Village Network is NBCDI’s local on the ground organizations, advancing our mission and ensuring that our partners and the communities are aware and are utilizing NBCDI’s Eight Essential Outcomes for Black child development.

Chris Riback: And who are you engaging with?

Kerron Kalloo: Absolutely. So when we think about what it means to be in a community, it really is everybody. And for Black children, whether you’re a librarian, a doctor, a banker, you are a person that makes an impact on a Black child’s life. So our villages, our organizations in the network, work with anyone, everyone that has a connection to or some kind of relationship with a Black child. And it’s that kind of desire that allows them to participate, volunteer, and engage. Typically, we see a lot of educators and parents. In the last couple of years, we’ve seen many researchers and policy leaders come on board.

Chris Riback: That’s got to be a good thing.

Kerron Kalloo: It’s a great thing. But I don’t think we should ever diminish all the other professions and types of people that are supporting our mission and working on behalf of our Black children.

Chris Riback: And what do you hear from them? What do you hear most significantly to me from the parents, from the educators, and to the extent you talk with them, the children themselves? But really the parents and the educators, what do you hear from them?

Kerron Kalloo: First and foremost, we hear that they find comfort in their local Black Child Development Institute and a place that they can trust. This is important because as we’re amplifying Black voices, we want those voices to be authentic. So they tell us about the challenges that they may face with their school administration, with the resources that are available in their community. And we make sure that not only do we survey and capture quantitative data telling their story, but take clips. Making sure that-

Chris Riback: Really capture it.

Kerron Kalloo: … Really, yes. Absolutely. And that way as we do our promotion statewide, nationally, people understand what our parents are really saying.

Chris Riback: You have the local people who are living it every day telling their stories.

Kerron Kalloo: Exactly.

Chris Riback: When they mention the concerns, are there any ones that come top of mind? What are you hearing maybe most often?

Kerron Kalloo: Safety is a major one. So safe communities is an area that many of our parents are concerned about. And we know the topic around diverse books is all over national news. So many of our families are just concerned about what kind of education they’re getting in their schools and what they can do to actually make a difference.

Chris Riback: I’m hearing a lot of commentary around mental health, mental wellness. Has that become more of a concern in the last couple of years? Are you seeing that or am I just hearing it more often today?

Kerron Kalloo: It is a major concern. When we think about the racial disparities that Black children and families face, it creates trauma, regardless. And that weighs heavily on the children, even the parents. And that type of mental wellness is our top priority. And so we really look closely at what it means to have support systems in our schools, what parents can do to access services outside of schools, and who they can trust in their community as local partners.

Chris Riback: And you mentioned previously the Eight Essential Outcomes for Black child development. I think we’ve been talking about a couple of them. Because they include health and education and nutrition, digital safety, representation, climate, narratives. You mentioned narratives a moment ago, the ability to tell those stories, and safe communities. Are these really the areas where you’re looking to make the most impact?

Kerron Kalloo: Absolutely. And we know that when we allow these areas to be our reality, that this is commonplace across our country, know our Black children are going to thrive. So we’re absolutely excited to work with our partners locally, nationally, to ensure that everyone’s aware of what is required for the United States of America to really empower our Black children.

Chris Riback: There’s a lot of work to be done.

Kerron Kalloo: 100%.

Chris Riback: Thank you for the work you’re doing. Thank you for coming by the studio.

Kerron Kalloo: Excellent. Thank you, Chris. I appreciate it.

Chris Riback: Dr. King, thank you for coming by the studio.

Dr. Kiesha King: Yes, you’re welcome. I wouldn’t miss it for the world.

Chris Riback: Digital divide, it’s obviously a phrase that we all hear. We heard it a lot even more during COVID. Give a definition for it. What’s the context? How do you define it?

Dr. Kiesha King: It’s really looking at all the students across the country that lack internet access and access to technology so that they can do all of the wonderful things that they’re more affluent peers have access to do.

Chris Riback: In reading some of your materials, I interpreted it as really coming down to those two things, the devices and the access. Those are the two main inputs to the divide.

Dr. Kiesha King: It is. And when you see the direction that even our federal funding sources have gone with the emergency connectivity fund, if students don’t have the devices, they can’t access the resources. If they don’t have the connectivity outside of the traditional school day, they still lack the access. So giving them the connectivity, pairing that with the device, of course, the device that’s adequate for what they’re hoping to do.

Chris Riback: Yes.

Dr. Kiesha King: Right? Enough screen, real estate, a keyboard potentially, internet access that’s unlimited and high speed. Pairing all those things together gives students an opportunity to advance in a technologically required future.

Chris Riback: Required. Everything is digital.

Dr. Kiesha King: It is.

Chris Riback: It is. What is your T-Mobile affiliated role and what is Project 10Million?

Dr. Kiesha King: So for T-Mobile, I’m the Senior National Education Administrator, which means that I lead all of our education strategy for K12 and higher education across the country. It’s not by chance, though. I have been an educator, so I’m a forever teacher, principal. I was a director of online learning in a school district of almost 70,000 students and about 85, 90% free or reduced lunch. And so when you think about dealing with those type of disparities every single day, it’s the same type of mindset and passion that has to go into the work to bridge a digital divide for the same students and communities that are seeking to serve them.

Chris Riback: And what is Project 10Million?

Dr. Kiesha King: Project 10Million is a phenomenal commitment to bridge the digital divide. T-Mobile said-

Chris Riback: $10.7 billion.

Dr. Kiesha King: $10.7 billion commitment. And so it is geared towards helping eligible student households with a free hotspot and five years of connectivity, 100 gigabytes per year, high speed internet access so that they can access critical education resources and Google a random thought here and there.

Chris Riback: Anytime we need an answer, we go to Google.

Dr. Kiesha King: We do.

Chris Riback: What is the strategy and what are some of the tactics? You mentioned a couple of them. This has a real strategy behind it.

Dr. Kiesha King: Yes. A lot has changed since the pandemic. The pandemic put us in a situation where we had to be super reactionary, and education has always been a data-driven organization. It’s been a data-driven business. And so now we’re in a situation where we’re able to kind of sit back and go back to the drawing board and figure out what are our best next steps with regards to students, and we don’t have to be reactionary. We can actually figure it out together.

Chris Riback: What I also liked in reading about the program, and you correct me if I have this wrong, is you’re doing this work in the homes with the devices with that a hundred gigs of internet access, but I believe you’re also working with the educators, and I believe that that means as well, re-imagining the role of the curriculum with instruction and technology equity really working with the educators. Is that part of what you’re doing?

Dr. Kiesha King: Absolutely. And it’s something I did quite a bit in a school district. Anytime you’re trying to incorporate technology and connectivity, you want to make sure students know what to do with those devices. And so who best to do that than educators and the school districts that serve the kids, right? And so T-Mobile is here to partner with them and figure out how we can get it right and how they can get it right on behalf of their students.

Chris Riback: And this is active, I believe in some school districts already?

Dr. Kiesha King: It is. So a great example is Jefferson County Public Schools, we’re working very closely with-

Chris Riback: That’s in Kentucky.

Dr. Kiesha King: It is. Yes. We’re working very closely with our superintendent, Dr. Polio and their Chief Innovation Officer, Dr. Belcher and the two of them have put together a phenomenal longer term strategy to bridge the digital divide. So they not only are saying, Hey, we want connectivity for our kids, but we want the connectivity built into the device that we’re handing our students. So they have over 70,000 students today that have a Chromebook that’s SIM embedded, so that when they take that device anywhere, anywhere, whether they’re on the side of the soccer field or they’re waiting for mom to get off work, or they’re just sitting on a long commute, a long bus ride, or a long car ride, they have their device with the internet access built in.

Chris Riback: It’s like a mobile phone, but it’s a Chromebook.

Dr. Kiesha King: Exactly.

Chris Riback: And we all know that everything is up-to-date in Kansas City. Tell me what’s happening there?

Dr. Kiesha King: Yes, Kansas City is doing some amazing work. We’re working really closely there with their superintendent and chief academic officer, and they have decided to put an iPad in the hands of all of their students. So their students have a connected iPad and they’ve created an ecosystem to support student success across the school district.

Chris Riback: Wow. A lot going on.

Dr. Kiesha King: Yes.

Chris Riback: What’s next?

Dr. Kiesha King: Oh goodness. That’s a great question. Well, we’ve only connected 5.3 million students, so we got to get to 10 million. We got a long way to go. I think in addition to that though, this is just a great time to sit with school district leaders, whether it’s through an advisory council or some other type of integrated opportunity, just like NBCDI now.

Chris Riback: Yes.

Dr. Kiesha King: Right? This is a great time for us to come together and talk about what does the future of education look like. We want to be a part of that conversation. I know I do.

Chris Riback: Well, there’s a lot of work to be done, unfortunately. I wish there weren’t, but I’m glad that you’re on it. Dr. King-

Dr. Kiesha King: Thank you so much.

Chris Riback: … thank you for coming by the studio.

Dr. Kiesha King: Thank you. I’m excited to be a part of the work.

Chris Riback: Joan, thank you for coming by the studio.

Dr. Joan Lombardi: Oh, it’s great to be here.

Chris Riback: You have been in this field throughout your professional career. Give me an overview. Where are we today? What are the significant changes that you’re seeing?

Dr. Joan Lombardi: I’ve been lucky, Chris, that I’ve been able to see the field from multiple perspectives, from the policy side, from the public, private sector side, from the university side. What’s been exciting for me is that everyone is trying to make a difference for young children and their voices together, I think collectively, are starting to cut through.

Chris Riback: What are the top issues today around early learning and children and our society?

Dr. Joan Lombardi: That’s a very big question. I think that the most important people in children’s lives are the adults in their lives, the caregivers, their parents, and those who care for them every day. Both of those groups are not being supported the way a country like ours should be doing it. We’ve got a long way to go to make sure that the living conditions of families are promoting responsive parenting, supporting responsive parenting. We’ve got a long way to go before we can be sure that those people that are caring for children every day have working conditions and recognition that will allow them to thrive so children can thrive.

Chris Riback: What is the Rapid survey?

Dr. Joan Lombardi: Rapid is a rapid cycle research effort. It’s a survey that we’ve been doing since April of 2020, since the very early days of the pandemic. In the beginning of the pandemic, we were surveying about a thousand parents of young children a week. We then moved to every other week, and now we’re doing it monthly more and more to really hear from them what are the issues that they’re facing, not assume we know, but listen to their voices, have the data that really reflects what parents are saying in real time.

Chris Riback: Do you derive conclusions each month off of that data or you provide the data and then people who want to access the data to find their own conclusions can do that?

Dr. Joan Lombardi: Well, it’s a little bit of both. I think that we analyze the data. For example, we’ve done a lot of looking at what parents are saying about material hardship and that they certainly felt during the pandemic things got a little better when we had policies that supported them. Now those policies have lapsed, and so I think families are feeling that. We also wanted to see how they felt that was affecting that material hardship was affecting their family wellbeing and their children. What was the relationship among those? Because we know that economic supports for families matter to child development in the field. We often talk about early learning environments, but the early learning environment for a child is the whole community. It’s the

Chris Riback: Whole community, it’s the whole world. It’s everything that they touch. Speaking of communities and moving towards solutions and what you see out there, are there some innovative solutions or communities that you’re seeing with innovative solutions out there?

Dr. Joan Lombardi: I’m seeing them all over the country, and unfortunately the news at the national level and in the international level is very difficult. We are talking about poly crisis, covid, conflict, climate change, environmental issues. But at the local level, what I see is people trying to come together, set a north star. We want all our children to thrive along that developmental continuum, and we want to bring everybody together with the objective of reaching that north star. It sometimes reminds me of the early days in the country when everyone got together to help raise the barn. That’s the analogy that I sometimes use.

Chris Riback: Yes. What a great image.

Dr. Joan Lombardi: It is an image that, and you see it in small villages all over the world.

Chris Riback: From raising the barn to raising our children.

Dr. Joan Lombardi: Raising our children in a collective way.

Chris Riback: Yes.

Dr. Joan Lombardi: That doesn’t mean that we’re taking them away from their families. It’s the opposite. We’re trying to support their families so they can provide better care.

Chris Riback: One last area where I think where it seems that families are needing support is around the climate crisis. What can we be doing? Are there individual actions or collective actions we can be doing around climate and early learning?

Dr. Joan Lombardi: Well, it’s interesting that you asked that because we recently included some questions on the Rapid survey about what families were feeling about climate and their overall environment around their homes and in their communities. Over 70% of those parents said they were concerned.

Chris Riback: Wow.

Dr. Joan Lombardi: It’s children all over the world and it’s children of the future who are going to inherit the earth. So I think it’s the issue of the moment. It’s one of the issues of the moment, and that we all have to take some responsibility for changing it. I’ve had people say to me, because I’m doing a lot of work in this area, “You’re doing climate now, Joan?” We have so many issues in the field, but to me and to many of us, it’s a child rights issue.

I think we have to take lessons from the youth of the world who are standing up and saying, “Wait a minute, this is my earth that you’re talking about. This is my future and we’re not going to stand for the way we’ve treated it in the past.” Something is changing. Of course, for many children, this has been an issue for years. I remember my first classroom in Boston where this is in the early 70s, where I saw children coming at three and four already showing signs of asthma because their environmental conditions were not supportive of their health. This for many people is not a new issue. Climate’s made it worse.

Chris Riback: Joan, thank you for the work you’re doing today on that. Thank you for your historical work and for coming by the studio today.

Dr. Joan Lombardi: Thank you, Chris, for having me and for being here. Thanks a lot.

Chris Riback: Dr. Martin, thanks for coming to the studio.

Dr. Raquel Martin: Thank you for having me.

Chris Riback: Now, I am not going to lie, and I understand you’re in the process of reworking your website, raquelmartinphd.com, but you only have to spend about three seconds on the site to know that any conversation with you is going to have a lot of energy and is going to be really informative. So no pressure, but-

Dr. Raquel Martin: No, no, none at all. I definitely don’t feel any pressure at all now since you led with it.

Chris Riback: Yes, put it out there upfront. Expectations upfront. So let’s start with, I think, one of the key things that you focus on. What is black mental wealth?

Dr. Raquel Martin: So I like to think of black mental wealth as encompassing mental health and wellbeing because mental health and physical health and the way individuals are treated in society are all linked, right? So I think when you state solely black mental health, sometimes people forget about physical wellbeing. Sometimes people forget about their community and that being linked in. So I like to think of it as an umbrella, and mental health is under that umbrella, but there’s so much more when it comes to contributing to the wealth of the community overall.

Chris Riback: Do you talk with parents, or do you talk with children, or do you talk with both? Do you-

Dr. Raquel Martin: Both. Yes. So currently I have a private practice where I’m doing individual therapy. I also am a full-time professor at Tennessee State University. I also do speaking engagements and research as well. So everyone from, I think, my… I don’t have too many younger patients at this point, but my youngest patient has been four, and my oldest patient has been 66 maybe.

Chris Riback: Wow. Let’s start with the parents. What are you hearing from them? What are the challenges? You’re out there talking to them every day regularly at least, and getting the real stuff, getting to hear really what is on their mind, what are they challenged with. What are you hearing?

Dr. Raquel Martin: Exhaustion. So one of the biggest things I think that contributes to the difficulty with black children and black youth and black individuals being in the society overall is dehumanization, adultification, depriving black people of human qualities, and then not seeing the children as children. So a lot of times parents are parenting out a racism-related fear, because they have a concern that they’re not going to be with them all the time. We understand the fact that you’re not going to be seen as the baby that I see in the house, having to prepare you for all of these difficult things. And in doing that, we’re not able to allow them to have the freedoms that European American counterparts are able to have. So it’s kind of feeling like you have to be tough in order to protect them, but they’re also kids. So trying to find the balance of I want my child to come home safely. I also want them to be a child, and trying to balance it. It’s like walking a tight rope and it can be incredibly exhausting.

Chris Riback: It sounds exhausting. And then for the children themselves, what’s the impact of that? Everything, you don’t need me to tell you, I need to hear from you, and you correct me if I’m wrong, professor, doctor. Everything we do as parents, the children see, they watch. And so parents who have to be behaving the way you just described, what effect does that have on the children?

Dr. Raquel Martin: It depends on how it’s done. So I always feel as though if we’re able to explain what’s going on, if we’re able to have the conversation about this is why I am trying to protect you, then that can be easier for the children to not feel as though they’re not being trusted. Because if you’re being more stringent on rules and things like that, they’re just like, “My parent doesn’t trust me. They’re being difficult.” Instead of just saying that the parents want you to be alive.

But a lot of times parents don’t have that ability to do that. There’s a significant wage gap when it comes to black families. We’re still paying the same amount of bills everyone else is paying, but we’re making significantly less. So most of the time we have to do more. So we don’t really always have the time to stop and have a conversation, and then it can have a disruption in your relationship with your child.

So I think it’s good to have events like this when you’re able to slow down and converse and work within community. But I think sometimes parents who are parents on racism-related fear, they have this thought process of the world is tough, so I’m going to be tougher because I don’t want my children to walk out and think that they’re going to be treated the same way. And they’re not, but that can be a disruption in the relationship with the parent, and it can just be difficult.

And it also, it places emphasis on the wrong things. A lot of times children will just feel like parents are being strict, and sometimes they will feel like the issue is their race, but race isn’t the issue. Racism is the issue. So if we don’t take the time to slow down, which is incredibly difficult, we can kind of disrupt the relationship that we have with our children, which it’s the most salient relationship you’re going to have. In their mind, their most salient relationship is their friends, but caregivers are the most salient relationship they’re going to have growing up. So it can be… Honestly, I’d always describe it as it’s a tightrope.

Chris Riback: And that’s a tightrope, but that’s also an incredibly tense way to live.

Dr. Raquel Martin: It is, and especially since when it comes to black children or black youth, it is life or death. There is the aspect of, honestly, parenting all the time with children, you don’t know what they’re going to do. So you already have the stress of what is that? Where’d you get that chainsaw? But it’s also thinking about them also being safe. And one of the things that becomes incredibly difficult is as black parents and individuals, a lot of us were reared the same way. So it’s hard to foster something in your children that has never been fostered in you, that you haven’t recognized in yourself. It’s hard to tell your children it’s okay to take a break when you never take a break.

So I feel like it’s also that exhaustion of you’re trying to rear your children in this one way, but you haven’t accepted the fact that you need to take a chill pill sometime and also show them your full realm of humanity. They have to see you making mistakes. I hope to make at least one or two mistakes in front of my children a day. So then I could say, “Oh, well that happened. Let’s figure out how we’re going to manage it.” Because imagine a world where children don’t feel so bogged down by the fact of making mistakes, anxiety and depression, and feelings of shame and guilt. A lot of that is based in what happens if I do something wrong? Oh, I do something wrong, I try to figure out how to do it right, or I get help. That’s the goal.

Chris Riback: Well, you’re making me feel terrific, because if making mistakes makes one a better parent, then I must be a fantastic parent.

Dr. Raquel Martin: It’s the goal, right? Because we’re going to become their inner dialogue. Bottom line. I hear my mom’s head voice in my head all the time. “Something isn’t steamed appropriately,” or, “Oh, well, that wasn’t a very good kind thought,” or, “Let them get in front of you, you’re not running late,” whatever, when I’m driving.

But you also want it to come into your mind when you’re thinking like, “Oh, I just did such a stupid job.” Well, everyone has difficulties. You want it to be normal, and you don’t want them to think the perfection is the goal. And the reason why it’s so specific within the black community is because it could have been life or death. Burning biscuits for goodness’ sake, or not listening to this exact aspect of direction. So when you’re reared in this aspect of obedience instead of respect, a lot of things become way more difficult. You feel like you have way more limitations. You were brought up that way, and we kind of are working now to figure out a way to rear our children in a way where they’re able to thrive.

But many generations, not even many generations ago, a generation or two, the goal was simply to survive. And when you’re dealing with survival, that’s obedience. But if we want our children to thrive, we have to work on building respect. And I feel like children are so amazing. The reason why I really enjoy working with child therapy is it’s before we get to the societal norms where… Kids say whatever they want, and they also have a lot of freedom. And they also, they could be like, I want to be a shark today, a doctor tomorrow, a firefighter the next day, because they have this realm of creativity. And I just feel like sometimes when it comes to society, a lot of times when it comes to society, the responsibilities take that away from us as adults. And I think that’s why a lot of us gravitate towards children is because we miss that. It’s like, I remember when I used to want to be a shark, and now I just want to see what my 401Ks look like.

Chris Riback: I just want to get to bed by 10:00 PM.

Dr. Raquel Martin: I want to get to bed by 10:00 PM or oh, that’s not a fiscally responsible decision. We want children to have that as long as possible, and black youth don’t get to have that. So we’re trying to prepare them in a way, we’re trying to combat the adultification, dehumanization that society has put on. But as a result, sometimes we fall into the same lane and you have to be twice as good. No, you can’t do that. Did you get an A or AAA on that paper? What is a AAA? Who knows? But you have to get it. It’s just trying to combat racism-related stress as a parent, while you’re also likely dealing with racism in your skin as a parent as well. It’s just a lot.

Chris Riback: It’s a lot. It’s a lot to keep in mind, and if you do have your mother’s voice in your mind right now, I bet she’s saying, “That was a great conversation.”

Dr. Raquel Martin: She was probably saying, “Talk slower,” to be honest.

Chris Riback: That’s not it! She said, “That was a great conversation.” Dr. Martin, thank you for coming by the studio.

Dr. Raquel Martin: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me.

Chris Riback: Rotimi, thanks so much for coming by the studio.

Rotimi Kukoyi: Yes, I’m glad to be here today.

Chris Riback: First of all, I just wanted to say how sorry I am you had such trouble getting into college. Only 12 out of 12 accepted you?

Rotimi Kukoyi: 15, actually.

Chris Riback: 15 out of 15?

Rotimi Kukoyi: Yes, sir.

Chris Riback: Who is the big winner?

Rotimi Kukoyi: UNC Chapel Hill. Go, Heels.

Chris Riback: Go, Heels. You are interested in educational and health equity with the aim of expanding access to our nation’s institutions, and you hope to pursue an MD/MBA?

Rotimi Kukoyi: Yes, that’s correct.

Chris Riback: What are educational and health equity?

Rotimi Kukoyi: Educational equity is making sure that our education system is properly equipped to provide students from all backgrounds with equitable opportunities in education. Education should not be limited by a student’s income or geographic area or their parents’ education status, and unfortunately it is, but there are a ton of great educators, many of them here, doing work to make sure that we can close those barriers and help promote mobility for students from all backgrounds. Health equity, people tend to get health equity confused with DEI, and while they have some overlap, they’re still very distinct concepts. Health equity is trying to ensure that we have equitable outcomes in patients. We saw this during the COVID pandemic, that our health system and its infrastructure are not properly equipped to provide adequate services for people from several different marginalized backgrounds. I hope to use my medical education to help close some of those gaps and promote quality of life for people from all walks of life and backgrounds.

Chris Riback: How do the two connect? How does health equity connect with educational equity?

Rotimi Kukoyi: I think equity, in a lot of different spheres, it connects as a whole, but educational equity is directly tied to health equity through health literacy, then also socioeconomic status. Education, as I alluded to a little bit earlier, is one of the biggest mobilizing forces available for people. No matter what income you’re born into, if you’re able to pursue an education successfully, that can open up so many doors for you and you can begin to close the doors of intergenerational poverty and open up more opportunities for the people that will follow you. Health equity is trying to ensure that people can live longer lives and healthier lives. If you have students that are in school and they’re not able to get access to health resources, that can limit their education. Vice versa, if you have people in the health system and they’re not able to properly understand their communication with their doctors, that can limit their ability to follow their health regimens, to pursue healthy lifestyles, and then there are also barriers associated with poverty and even having opportunity to pursue a healthy lifestyle. It’s all so interconnected.

Chris Riback: It all connects. What inspired you to go down this path?

Rotimi Kukoyi: Yes, so educational equity, that is something that came from some research I did in high school. I did a year-long research project on trends in the Black/white ACT score gap in Alabama. That experience was so empowering for me, because for my whole life, I had seen underrepresentation in the classroom, despite going to diverse schools. I had seen the opportunity gaps between Black and white students and I thought it was an individual issue. Our school system, our curriculum, it didn’t explain the systemic backgrounds for these gaps we were seeing today. In doing my research, I learned about the role between wealth and neighborhood and educational attainment. I realized that this issue is so much bigger than they tell us students. That was something that I realized that, even though I don’t want to pursue education as a career, I still think it’s so important, so I remain engaged with it.

I’m mentoring students who are applying to college now for free. In fact, on the train here yesterday, I read four different essays of people I don’t know, but it just fulfills me. Healthcare, I’ve just always been interested in problem solving, but specifically, I love the direct impact that medicine and health has on the human condition. I love biology, but I also have learned, since coming to UNC and getting exposed to public health through its great public health school, the Gillings School of Global Public Health, and just different opportunities through my scholarship and education. I’ve realized that healthcare as a system is so flawed and your opportunities to impact lives are limited to that clinic. You are treating patients on a one by one basis often, being limited by the bureaucracy of healthcare.

Chris Riback: Yes.

Rotimi Kukoyi: If you really want to impact patients, you have to be able to impact health through community initiatives, through hospital reform, and that’s where that MBA piece comes in. I want to learn how to work with systems and how to innovate and think creatively for some of these problems

Chris Riback: Really get outside of the single clinic and scale the solutions that, I assume, you hope to design.

Rotimi Kukoyi: Yes.

Chris Riback: Why are you at the conference today?

Rotimi Kukoyi: I’m at the conference today as part of the Public Voices fellowship of the Op-Ed project and partnership with the NBCDI. I applied to this fellowship during the march of my freshman year of college, because I was interested in, again, learning and engaging with others about how we can make childhood more equitable. A lot of these inequities that we see, people aren’t born with them, but there’s something that starts to develop as early as preschool. They continue and continue and continue to compound.

Chris Riback: They might be born into them.

Rotimi Kukoyi: Exactly. They’re born into them, and these structures need reform, so I wanted to join a community of people that were engaging with this issue from so many different walks of life, so many different perspectives, and today we had the chance to have an in-person convening and it’s been awesome.

Chris Riback: You spent last summer in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Rotimi Kukoyi: I did.

Chris Riback: Why were you there?

Rotimi Kukoyi: My scholarship program, the Morehead-Cain Scholarship, it has four different summer pillars and, for our second summer of college, what we do is they have something called “Civic collab.” They send teams of scholars and four to five people, and then you’re sent to different cities across the country. There’s even a team in Canada this year, and you’re partnering with nonprofits or civic agencies or government agencies to help work on civic issues. I was a group of four other scholars in Grand Rapids, we are partnering with Coral Health and the CUSI Business Ethics Initiative from Grand Valley State University. We were working with Coral Health, the nonprofit health system, to make healthcare more accessible for people in the Grand Rapids community and promote health equity, and it was a great experience.

Chris Riback: You’re here at this NBCDI conference, which is all about helping empower and educate and generate opportunity for parents and children and communities all across the country. What would you say to some of those children who a place like this is trying to impact kids who might not have the ability to dream as big as you obviously do, or might see you and say, “Yes, him. That’s who I want to be.” What would you say to those kids?

Rotimi Kukoyi: I would say don’t be afraid to deviate from the single story. The media and a lot of our communities like to perpetuate this single idea of the Black child, which is something that authors like Jerry Craft have been working on dismantling, but you have to actively seek exposure to people doing all sorts of different cool things. I’m walking my own path, which I’ve learned from meeting with a bunch of different people and traveling a lot, and just getting exposure to the world. It really all just comes down to realizing that the image that people will try and project on you does not have to be the image that you want to walk in your life. Sometimes doors won’t be open for you, that might mean you have to reach your own door.

You might have to actively reach out and advocate for yourself over and over again, and it can be tiring, but you have to stick with it, because it will be worth it when you’re able to identify what your story is, what you want your story to look like, and how you’re going to use that story to impact others in a way that fulfills you.

Chris Riback: That’s a powerful and important lesson. Lastly, a little bit tongue in cheek, most important question for some people. Who’s going to win the ACC basketball tournament this year?

Rotimi Kukoyi: Obviously, I think UNC. We’re in a great spot, we have a great recruited class, we have some veteran players returning for the season. I think it’ll be an easy sweep, and even more importantly, I think when we play Duke, we’re going to crush them.

Chris Riback: We heard it here first. Rotimi, thank you. Thank you for coming to the studio.

Rotimi Kukoyi: Thank you for having me.q

Chris Riback: Roosevelt, thank you for coming by the studio.

Roosevelt Moss: It’s my pleasure.

Chris Riback: So tell me about BCDI Carolinas. It’s been Charlotte, it’s about to go to Carolinas. Why the transition? Why moving from covering Charlotte to covering the Carolinas?

Roosevelt Moss: Well, I think the transition is important because the need is great, and the work that we do through our larger organization, National BCDI, we just thought it was important not to just limit in North Carolina, especially with our close proximity in the Charlotte location, and a lot of our members currently live in South Carolina, so we just see it as an opportunity to continue to grow, do the work that we’re called to do.

Chris Riback: We are all taught to think globally, but act locally. What are the local issues in early childhood learning for the Carolinas?

Roosevelt Moss: There’s a long list of issues and challenges. And for me, working in the marketing and communications area, what’s most important to me is making sure that the stories of those challenges are being told. A lot of times decisions are made off numbers, and numbers are great, but if we can hear the stories from the perspective of the people who are having those challenges and who are going through those different situations, a lot of times it can touch the hearts of those decision makers and be able to help make some progress that’s desperately needed.

Chris Riback: What are some of the stories that have most resonated with you?

Roosevelt Moss: Some of our families have limited access to some of the most basic and fundamental needs. The funding disparity in some of our classrooms, food deserts in some of our communities, some of the basic fundamental things that you sometimes take for granted if you don’t experience it. And so it’s important for me from my perspective to be able to share those stories and to be able to communicate that message so that those who are in positions to be able to make those changes can know what’s really happening on the ground.

Chris Riback: Tell me about those people. Who are the audiences that you really want to influence?

Roosevelt Moss: City officials, local officials, government officials on all different levels, the decision makers in the classrooms and then the policies that really help shape just the everyday life experiences of the people that we serve. We really want them to hear the heart of the people that they’re actually in position to serve, but sometimes are a little distant from those people. Part of my job is to help communicate those stories, those messages, and make sure that they’re heard.

Chris Riback: And to help close that gap.

Roosevelt Moss: To help close the gap for sure.

Chris Riback: And the people who are the protagonists of the stories that you’re telling, what do they have to say about your work and what do they have to say about BCDI Carolinas?

Roosevelt Moss: That it’s much needed. And while we’re doing a lot of really good work, really good hard work, some of our volunteers, the people on our team led by our president, Dr. Govan-Hunt, she’s leading a charge of an army that sometimes is not seen, but the work that’s being done is definitely felt in the communities. So they would say that there is work being done, but there is still so much more, and that we need to just continue to push, be a little bit more aggressive in our advocacy and fight for what we deserve and what’s rightfully ours.

Chris Riback: You have a lot of work ahead of you, and it sounds like you have plenty of opportunity to tell those stories.

Roosevelt Moss: Yes, we do. And we look forward to it. We’ve rolled our sleeves up and ready to go and to continue this expansion and see where we can take it.

Chris Riback: Roosevelt, thank you for your work. Thank you for coming by the studio.

Roosevelt Moss: Thank you so much for having me.

Chris Riback: Schellee, Valeria, thank you both so much for coming by the studio.

Schellee Rocher: You’re welcome.

Valeria Norwood: Thanks for having us.

Chris Riback: So let’s start with BCDI Los Angeles. Tell me what’s going on with it. What’s the community like? What are some of the areas that you’re really focusing on there?

Schellee Rocher: So, I’m Schellee Rocher. I am the village President for the greater BCDI Greater Los Angeles.

Chris Riback: Greater Los Angeles.

Schellee Rocher: Right. We did change the name from just Los Angeles to make sure that we could include The Los Angeles County, which is the size of the state of Delaware, so can I let Valeria introduce herself a little bit too?

Chris Riback: Of course. Valeria, tell me about you.

Valeria Norwood: Well, I’m Valeria Norwood. I’ve been a BCDI member for a few years, and I enjoy this work. I know that I am probably, so I’m told, aging. I am a member of the Council of Elders that we now have, and that Council of Elders comes from our African tradition, where there was a group of elders that always could oversee or could make recommendations, and they were supposed to have wisdom. Now, I won’t go that far, but it’s a great group. We support our national office and the board, and so we’re just here to help. Most of us have been in this field of education, some with early education, some with middle school, and even to high school because we have had some of those programs too.

Chris Riback: And you used to run, if I’m not mistaken, BCDI Los Angeles.

Valeria Norwood: Well, I wasn’t president for a while. I don’t know if I-

Chris Riback: You’re very vague on the actual numbers, I noticed.

Valeria Norwood: I don’t know if I would say I run, but every child that’s Black belongs to me. And it is my privilege to do something to help that child become the best that he or she may. And that while they’re doing that, you support their parents, but you want them to have health, education, a safe place to live, to go to the park to play. So, that’s what you strive for. And sometimes now that is not so easy, but just because it isn’t easy doesn’t mean that it cannot be done. And so, that’s why I still do this.

Chris Riback: What a beautiful and powerful statement that every child is yours.

Valeria Norwood: Yes.

Chris Riback: Schellee, as I’m listening to Valeria and listening to her role on the Council of Elders, you’re working every day with parents and children, with the next generations. What’s the role of elders in the work that you do?

Schellee Rocher: So well, currently there’s not a large role, but that’s something that we want to change moving forward. With BCDI Greater Los Angeles, our goal is to, right now, the vision that I have is to develop a network of schools and childcare programs that already exist to become part of the BCDI Greater Los Angeles network. And so, the privilege that they’ll get from being a part of our network is to be exposed to elders, have the national programs implemented, and any programs that we decide to develop at the local level but the elders would be a part of that.

Chris Riback: And why is that important? Why does it matter for kids today to have access to elders like that?

Schellee Rocher: Well, as she said, it’s an African tradition for us and for children to… The elders bring so much, the children learn from them, a lot of lessons, a lot of wisdom, a lot of respect, and it carries on through the community. Community is a big part of having elders engaged and involved, and a lot of children unfortunately, don’t have that. So, having extra elders and extra aunts and uncles and grandparents can really, I think help us get back on track with our communities and our children.

Chris Riback: Schellee, Valeria, thank you both for everything that you do. Thank you for coming by the studio.

Schellee Rocher: Thank you for having us.

Chris Riback: Kamren, thanks so much for coming by the studio.

Kamren Rollins: It’s a pleasure to be here with you.

Chris Riback: So you wear a couple of different hats around the early learning, community development, advancement areas. Let’s talk first about BCDI DC and your role there. Tell me about the community and what’s your key mission in that role?

Kamren Rollins: Yes, so I serve as the President of the Black Child Development Institute of District of Columbia. It’s actually a new role. We just reestablished the affiliate. So the main goal of BCDI DC ties into the mission of NBCDI, which is to create communities and enhance the development opportunities, whether that’s in education, health for Black children in the area.

Chris Riback: What inspired the revitalization of the affiliate?

Kamren Rollins: I had the pleasure of being in the policy fellowship with NBCDI, which was an amazing transformative leadership opportunity for me, and being so integrally, connected with NBCDI at the time, and then knowing that the affiliate had not been active for a few years, I think it was really important for me and some others to work together to reestablish it, just to make sure there’s a level of advocacy, programming, and policy work that’s being done in the District.

Chris Riback: What are some of the key issues going on? Tell me about the community. What makes now a particularly important moment to restart the NBCDI division in DC?

Kamren Rollins: Definitely, so there’s a few things. One, when we look at what’s going on nationally as it relates to education for children across the spectrum, but specifically Black children, there’s a great need for the affiliate in DC to be able to speak on behalf of the national organization, but also with that local perspective. But then also when we look at the advocacy that’s happening for the workforce, for early childhood educators and ensuring pay equity, it’s really important. I think DC continues to lead the way and ensure what’s happening here doesn’t just stay here, and it expands to states and other cities.

Chris Riback: Obviously you are in the District, you are in an environment where getting your message out, there’s the potential that it could reach federal policymakers.

Kamren Rollins: That’s the goal. I think what DC Council and so many other stakeholders in Washington DC have been able to do on behalf of early childhood education has been incredible, from mentioning the pay equity to ensuring that early childhood educators have full tuition scholarships to obtain their associate’s, bachelor’s, and even higher education degrees is extremely important that everywhere else, every other city, every other community has those same opportunities.

Chris Riback: Yes, pay equity is a topic I’m hearing a lot about at the conference, and we say it’s something important then that’s something that perhaps needs to be addressed, doesn’t it?

Kamren Rollins: Certainly. We have to make the investment into not only the children, but when we talk about the children, I think individuals oftentimes forget about people that are day-to-day working to ensure that the children have a better quality of life, have a better educational experience. What I’ve found is it’s really difficult or it’s challenging when we center conversations around the children, which we should, but the educators, the individuals that have families as well are oftentimes forgotten.

Chris Riback: Yes. They’re the ones we put our children in their hands every day.

Kamren Rollins: Exactly.

Chris Riback: Now, this is not your only role. You’re also Chief Operating Officer of the Southeast Children’s Fund.

Kamren Rollins: Yes, sir.

Chris Riback: What is that organization?

Kamren Rollins: Southeast Children’s Fund is a nonprofit organization. It was founded by Ms. Frances Jay Rollins in 1994 and since then, it has been one of the largest providers of workforce development opportunities, such as the Child Development Associate Program in the district, and then also have had several childcare facilities in the southeast area, but also in other areas of Washington DC.

Chris Riback: What are you hearing from parents? What do they need most?

Kamren Rollins: They need support. They need guidance. When looking at the development of young children, we can’t just look at what it looks like while they’re in the center or when they’re in the classroom, but it’s so important for them to have wraparound services. The reason why I’m so connected to the organization, but also it’s important for us to continue to expand the work that we do because we focus not just on the child while they’re in the classroom, but also ensuring that parents and families have those wraparound services.

Chris Riback: Well, there’s a lot of work to be done. Thank you for what you’re doing. Thank you for coming by the studio.

Kamren Rollins: Thank you. I appreciate it.

Chris Riback: Sonya, thank you for coming to the studio.

Sonya Soni: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so grateful.

Chris Riback: You are affiliated with Boston University, however you co-head the Los Angeles Youth Commission. First, why is that work so important to you, and second, do you spend half your life flying back and forth, Boston to LA?

Sonya Soni: That’s a great question, Chris. The reason why this work is so important to me is mostly because I’m obsessed with identity, ancestry, and a sense of belonging and where we come from, and so I always really was passionate about how we keep families together. My great-grandmother was a freedom fighter in India, and she helped found a nonprofit on girls’ rights, but over the decades, it turned into an orphanage, so I spent a lot of my youth at the orphanage. I really saw how youth had families, but they were being trafficked and warehoused into these orphanages under this myth of benevolence that they were being saved, rather than because of structural poverty and casteism, these youth were being separated by their families, where they found the most sense of belonging.

Then when I moved to Los Angeles County, which is the largest child welfare and juvenile justice system in the country, I was seeing a lot of the same patterns that I was seeing abroad, which was most youth of color were actually being impacted by the child welfare system. Black families were being surveilled, policed, and separated by child protective services. The same way that Black men were being separated by their families through the prison system, I was seeing Black mothers being separated by their families by the child welfare system. The public imagination is mostly around how the child welfare system was protecting children, but it was actually causing a lot more harm and structural violence on these families, so that’s really where my passion started for this work.

Chris Riback: It’s so extraordinary, in a challenging sense, how connected everything is. One thing, it can all just snowball, and I would assume, correct me if I’m wrong, but focusing in just one area may not even be enough. You kind of have to focus all around. Is that accurate?

Sonya Soni: Yes, that is so accurate, Chris. What I really got to see when I came to Los Angeles County was that there was a larger web of carcerality that was surveilled-

Chris Riback: A web, yes.

Sonya Soni: Yes, that was surveilling, policing, and institutionalizing youth of color, and how the child welfare system was so interconnected to youth incarceration. About 75% of youth who are in foster care were also being sent to youth prisons and camps, and so that’s when I really got to see it wasn’t enough just to tackle child protective services and the myth of benevolence around foster care, but also to think about how youth prisons and camps are involved in also institutionalizing youth. That’s really where my passion came for both tackling youth incarceration and child welfare at the same time.

Chris Riback: I understand that you believe that there is a place for something that I think you call poetry in policymaking. What is that? It’s a beautiful phrase.

Sonya Soni: Yes. A lot of the youth organizers I was working with in South Los Angeles, there’s a coalition called Youth Justice Reimagined, where a lot of them were artists, writers, activists, and they really wanted to use their backgrounds in hip hop, spoken word, and poetry to think about how to be changemakers. I really got to see how so much of the policy we were writing in Los Angeles County was so devoid of our humanity, and it was so sterile and cold and devoid from the actual political context in which families were being separated. I created a policymaking through poetry workshop, where youth organizers were able to really grapple with their identities, both politically and personally, to think about how they want to write policy that actually infuses our humanity and our complexity in the way we write our policy. It was also a way for policymakers and youth organizers, the very youth who are systems-impacted, to come together to also grapple with their different identities and how that shows up when they are writing policy when they’re writing their poetry together.

Chris Riback: I don’t mean this to be silly. Anti-racist, I understand, or I think I understand what it would mean to be non-racist, to not have racism as part of oneself. Is anti-racist something beyond that, where it’s almost actionable to try to address racism? What is anti-racist?

Sonya Soni: That’s a great question. I think this term has been in our public imagination, especially since 2020, after George Floyd’s murder, and there’s been a little bit of confusion around what that actually means for our everyday lives and how we show up to the movement. To me, anti-racism, really the heartbeat of it is what are the actions we can take? It’s not just believing that racism is unjust, but how are we practicing that in our everyday lives through the policies we support, through the ways that we show up in our advocacy for our fellow brothers and sisters that are a part of the communities of color? It’s really about how do we take an active stance in it, rather than just believing in it?

Chris Riback: It’s about being active.

Sonya Soni: Yes.

Chris Riback: We are all products of our past, ancestry matters, but I got the sense that your ancestry is particularly meaningful to you. Tell me about your grandmother.

Sonya Soni: Thank you so much. I could talk about ancestry all day. It’s like a personal passion of mine. So much of the work that we do in movement work and organizing work comes from our ancestors. My great-grandmother, she was a freedom fighter very close to Mohandas Gandhi during India’s fight against British colonial rule. She was one of the first women to be a part of the movement to bring other women to fight against the British Empire. She was jailed very much for speaking out and writing against the British Empire. She started a nonprofit organization focused on advancing the rights of girls and widows.

Then, 80 years later, I started working at that very nonprofit. It’s at the foothills of the Himalayas in Northern India. That is where I got exposed to the orphanage system and how detrimental orphanages are for child development and child mental health, and how 80% of those orphans actually had families to be there, but because of structural poverty, they were being sent there or trafficked there. It was really because of her that started my passion for youth justice, and to really think about trans-border politics and also trans-border solidarity of how so many of these issues are so similar. Whether I was working in Kashmir, India or now in South Los Angeles, all of the ways that youth are being trafficked, surveilled, police, and separated from their families are so similar, due to whether it’s casteism or structural racism.

Chris Riback: It’s no surprise that you’re motivated in the ways that you are, it’s in your DNA?

Sonya Soni: Oh, yes. Well, I hope so. Yes.

Chris Riback: Sonya, thank you for coming by the studio.

Sonya Soni: Yes, thank you so much. Thank you.

Chris Riback: Jalen, welcome to the studio. Thank you for coming.

Jalen Taylor: Yes, thank you for having me.

Chris Riback: So tell me about BCDI-Denver. What is your community like? Why does your group need it?

Jalen Taylor: Yes, so BCDI-Denver was founded in 2015 and we are currently transitioning to BCDI-Colorado so that we can serve-

Chris Riback: Growing.

Jalen Taylor: … the entire state. And so we’ve been seeing a lot of movement with the influx of people coming into Colorado. So we just want to make sure that we’re serving a larger net of community now.

Chris Riback: Your model, I believe is called Empowering Bright Beginnings for Thriving Tomorrows.

Jalen Taylor: Yes.

Chris Riback: What does that mean?

Jalen Taylor: Yes, so we know that a lot of brain development and things happen ages zero to three, and our market that we target is early childhood from ages zero to eight. So we want to make sure that we’re investing as much of our energy and time into young children so that they can have successful

Chris Riback: Futures. So let’s talk about some of the areas that you’re really focusing on. I believe one of them is policy and advocacy.

Jalen Taylor: Yes.

Chris Riback: How are you working with Colorado policymakers and how good is their listening skills?

Jalen Taylor: So currently we have a lot of coalitions that we sit on, including Child Care Awares, Alliance for Early Successes grant that they did for different states to make sure that we are empowering families. So providing policy and advocacy that looks for FFN providers, making sure that we’re prioritizing mental health and wellness and looking at holistic services that really hit some of the things that our children and families need.

Chris Riback: Tell me more about the mental health and wellness, such an important area. How do you talk to parents about that? What are some of the challenges that families are seeing in that area?

Jalen Taylor: So we’ve seen an increase of mental health needs, especially post COVID with depression and just increases of different mental incapacities. And so we not only focus on the child, but the wellbeing of the entire family. So we run programs like family empowerment program that helps empower family members depending on their access and needs. And then also looking at policy and advocacy that we can implement to make sure that healthcare is covered for mental health wellness and screenings and things like that, and just really pushing that forward. I’m also a mental health therapist, and so making sure that I’m doing some work in the community that supports that as well, directly.

Chris Riback: As a mental health therapist, what are the biggest challenges that you’re hearing from any patients or families or people that you’re meeting with?

Jalen Taylor: The biggest thing is just wanting to be seen and heard. Their stories are very complex and the themes are relatively the same. You just need somebody who gives them the space to process and work through that.

Chris Riback: What is the Literacy Bootcamp?

Jalen Taylor: Yes, so the Literacy Bootcamp is our annual camp that we do every year since we started, where we have children ages three to eight come in and do all different types of activities from mindfulness meditations to reading different mirror books. And it’s just a great space for families to come and engage in all types of programs and activities.

Chris Riback: How long does it run for?

Jalen Taylor: So it runs for three weeks in the summer, every summer because we saw that statistically children, especially African-American children, were experiencing the summer slide in which all of the information that they were retaining during the school year was being lost during the summer. So we wanted to have something that engaged them at that time as well.

Chris Riback: So I imagine the answer to this might be trying to get our arms around all of Colorado?

Jalen Taylor: Yes, we are.

Chris Riback: But what’s next for BCDI-Colorado?

Jalen Taylor: Yes, we’re moving into a state model. We first started out with direct programming and then moved into policy and advocacy with the goal that we would meet the needs of the community on the ground and then also do work to have systemic and institutional change so that we no longer have to exist. And so our biggest thing is moving affiliates into other parts of the state so that we can serve more people and then contracting with bigger organizations and institutions and districts so that we can start implementing culturally competent practices and making sure that our children are being seen across the board.

Chris Riback: Now are you from Colorado originally?

Jalen Taylor: Yes, born and raised.

Chris Riback: Okay. So you know how big the state is, you know what’s ahead of you?

Jalen Taylor: I do. So I’m grateful for all of our partners and supports that we have, and so I’m pretty sure that we can get this work done.

Chris Riback: Well, good luck with the growth and thank you for coming by the studio.

Jalen Taylor: Yes, thank you for having me. It was so nice.

Chris Riback: Darlene, welcome to the studio. Thank you for coming.

Darlene Walker: All right, thank you for having me.

Chris Riback: So, tell me about Hampton Roads. What is the community like and tell me about your affiliate.

Darlene Walker: Well our Hampton Roads area is really what we call the 757. There are eight cities to include Williamsburg. Virginia Beach is included in that as well. So we have Hampton, Newport News, which is all of what we call the Peninsula. And then we have Norfolk, Portsmouth and Chesapeake. And so we are military based. I don’t know how many bases and everything in that area. Our ships are there. Newport News ship building is there.

Chris Riback: There’s a lot going on.

Darlene Walker: NASA Langley. Yes, and everything has that military tone to it a little bit. So it’s a military town for sure.

Chris Riback: Why is your affiliate your BCDI Hampton Roads affiliate needed?

Darlene Walker: We are so needed, number one, because there aren’t very many, if any, organizations in our area that really address the issues of what’s going on with African-American children and their families. And so there are lots of organizations that deal with children, but not necessarily with a focus on our African-American children. Even as we focus on the kids, we don’t leave anybody out. So wherever we go, everybody benefits from whatever it is that we’re doing, whether we are giving books away, having parent workshops and things of that nature.

Chris Riback: So let’s talk about a couple of the areas that your group really hones in on. I think the first one is literacy.

Darlene Walker: Literacy and parent engagement are the two things that we focus on immensely. The parents are really engaged in what’s going on with their children, where they are, where the school, they know who the teacher is, and things of that nature. They’re more apt to come out to those parent workshops, more apt to come to PTA and things of that nature. So when they’re seeing what’s happening, it makes it easy for them to engage in that, and then pull away from that how I can help my child or what part of that is going to help our family.

And so that’s one of the things that we want to boost is that engagement factor. So with BCDI-Hampton Roads, we want to be sure that we are doing that. Hosting the workshops for the parents and things of that nature, along with the literacy factor. So at this point we probably have given away about 15,000 books throughout our Hampton Roads area. We want to promote that in-home reading library factor. Because with that in place, children can go right in their room, pull books off their little shelves, and read comfortably, and it doesn’t turn into a punishment or banned to the basement almost kind of thing.

Chris Riback: Yes, it’s something to look forward to.

Darlene Walker: It is. It is. And some of our parents, we have to just remind them that children do know once they’re in school, the preschool programs, they know how to handle books. They’re taught that.

Chris Riback: And I just wanted to confirm, do you find that music just seems to follow you wherever you go?

Darlene Walker: I’m glad. It keeps us upbeat and going.

Chris Riback: Yes, it keeps a little bit of energy. With the parents, because you talked about how when parents are involved, when they’re engaged, the kids do better. What’s the biggest question that parents have for you about how to help raise, engage children?

Darlene Walker: They don’t really have a question for us as much as they have the reasons as to why they don’t. The reasons why they don’t sometimes because they want to, is because they’re working. We have lots of parents that are working two jobs. We have parents who work the late shift so that they can get kids off to school in the morning.

So their shift is a little bit later so they’re not off until 5:00, 6:00 or 7:00, and those are the 6:00, 7:00 timeframes that we’re hosting parenting classes. So they’re explaining that. They know they should be. They just don’t have the energy to be. I know I have two sons myself and it was a challenge for me as well.

Chris Riback: It takes a lot of energy.

Darlene Walker: And I knew. So it took a lot to push through because I know I need to be there. They prepared for us. We need to be there. So the challenges are them working. We do always have those parents that just don’t worry about it. But mostly it is parents working and transportation.

Chris Riback: And it really shows how to raise a community of children, the way that the efforts that you’re involved in. It’s not just schools, it’s parents, it’s infrastructure, it’s work, it’s transportation. It takes everything.

Darlene Walker: It is. It’s a lot of things. Sometimes people try to pinpoint and say what the one key thing is and it’s not. There are many factors there.

Chris Riback: What’s next for BCDI-Hampton Roads? What are you going to really focus on, let’s say in the next six to 12 months?

Darlene Walker: In the next six to 12 months, we’ll still be aligning ourselves with the eight essential outcomes that are part of our strategic plan for the national organization. And so we’re just making sure that we’re in line with that. And then some of the projects that we were just having some bright ideas about, do they line up with that? Sometimes we got to keep the main thing, the main thing, and not stray too far off the path. So we’ll just make sure that we are on that track.

Membership is a big whoop-de-doo for us. That’s the year-round. Because we’re a membership organization and so individuals join us to do the work. That’s a challenge as well, because we are still looking for those people who are out there working, who are out there working two jobs, who have kids, other obligations and responsibilities. So they have to figure out if they can carve a little niche to be able to come into National Black Child and be supported.

Chris Riback: There’s a lot of work to be done.

Darlene Walker: It is. We look forward to it.

Chris Riback: I’m sure you do. Thank you for coming by the studio.

Darlene Walker: Oh, no problem. Thank you again for having me. Appreciate it.

Chris Riback: Councilmember Coonrod, thank you so much for visiting us at the studio.

Demetrus Coonrod: Absolutely. Thank you for the invitation.

Chris Riback: It’s great to have you. How is it that you’re sitting here today? What was your journey like? Straight path for you?

Demetrus Coonrod: Oh, I took a route, had experienced some challenges on the way to becoming a council person. I experienced a little time in prison and then now I advocated for the things that are the most important in my community. And so, I ran for office.

Chris Riback: Life is not always a straight path, is it?

Demetrus Coonrod: At all, no. It’s not always a straight path and it’s okay, because you can come back around and end up on a straight path.

Chris Riback: Did you always know that?

Demetrus Coonrod: I didn’t. I learned the hard way.

Chris Riback: What inspired you? What motivated you to run for office?

Demetrus Coonrod: Well, I had a grandmother that was always telling me that I was capable of accomplishing and becoming whatever I desire to become. And part of that education started early, just hearing it repeatedly, over and over and over. And I had to believe it in myself and I’m a firm believer. And if you want to be the one who want to impact change, then you just have to do it. You have to go for it. So, that just motivated me even more to do it because of the challenges that I had done experience.

Chris Riback: And that was told to you, even as a child?

Demetrus Coonrod: Right. Absolutely.

Chris Riback: Early childhood learning has a purpose, doesn’t it?

Demetrus Coonrod: It does.

Chris Riback: What’s the purpose? Why does it matter?

Demetrus Coonrod: Oh, early learning, it matters, even from when you are embryo, just developing because that important is that relationship that you’re building from the inside to out, is very important because kids need to understand at an early age, they’re learning and they’re developing even when they can’t formulate words. What they’re seeing and watching and hearing, the things that you do and you say to them and having to pick that up at an early age, that’s where it begins to move us forward. Right? And when you instill those morals and values and education matters, they’re going to continue that.

Chris Riback: What is the state of early childhood learning in Chattanooga?

Demetrus Coonrod: Now, we’re pushing it because it’s very important, right? We have a mayor that’s on boards who expand the early learning education, the seats to give people the opportunity who don’t have access, who can’t afford it. And making sure that we are training the right individuals to be the teachers, because that first point of contact outside of being a parent is the teachers that’s going to instill in them too, that educational values that we need for them to thrive.

Chris Riback: Speaking of the parents and caregivers, we all have gone through COVID, it affected everyone. How do you talk with parents? How do you encourage parents who have so many challenges, so many stresses, so many responsibilities? How do you say to them, “Yes and please make sure you focus on early childhood learning”?

Demetrus Coonrod: Right. So, what we would say is that we know that we’re in a pandemic, but when we look at all the pandemics that we’ve had previously or the challenges and crisis that we go through in life, education has to be a priority, it has to be a priority. And just make sure that you’re taking whatever measures that are comfortable for you and your family, so you can make that happen. Right. And then also just pushing parents to play an aggressive role in your child’s education opportunity. That’s attending a PTA meetings, emailing and conference calling the teacher. So, you can stay in the know of how you can still help your kid, because the teachers are only going to be able to do so much, but as a parent, you got to hone that in with your kids. So, that spending valuable time as well is very important.

Chris Riback: And how do you encourage your colleagues, other members of the city council, a mayor, other local, or even state leaders to move them and help them realize these parents need help, these caregivers need help? Here are the tangible things we need to do. How do you bring them along?

Demetrus Coonrod: Well, it’s just illustrating it in a way, because a lot of us didn’t come from the same background and don’t experience the same challenges. So, you got to paint that picture so they can see it, right? Like everybody from a two-parent household or they don’t have the experience of having that stay-at-home parent to where they can be engaged. We have a lot of latchkey kids and that’s a different experience for some, but you have to continue to push and let them know and show them in a painted way that this is the life for a lot of people and particularly the black and brown community. This is what we experience and not having that parental figure in that home, because they’re constantly working several jobs, or the father is removed from the home. It gives it a different conversation.

Chris Riback: I know councilmember, as well, that you are deeply involved in criminal justice reform. How does that connect for you with early learning?

Demetrus Coonrod: Oh, the connection is that, we know what the data says, that if you’re not reading at the third grade, that they’re already filling beds, preparing bed space for people to go to prison. So, we want to interject to change that. Now, we want our kids to be able to read on grade level. We want them to be able to have access to the different opportunities that’s going to make them successful, so they won’t fall into that pathway of going to prison, or making sure that they have the wraparound services that they need, not just for the kid, but for the whole entire family, because we just don’t know or understand a lot of times the challenges. And as a parent, when you are afraid to say, “Hey, I need help.” That’s a bigger picture in itself, but we got to be able to address whatever core issues, or root issues that’s affecting that entire family that’s going to trickle down to that kid.

Chris Riback: None of us likes to brag about ourselves. Do you see yourself as a role model?

Demetrus Coonrod: Absolutely. I consider myself a role model to many people, because I broke that barrier, that chain of what people would think, as a black woman growing up in poverty and having to experience both of my parents addicted to drugs. That was a different struggle, but I prioritized my education no matter which path that I was on. And it’s always been a value to me and to my life. And I want others to see that, no matter what path that you’ve taken, prioritized that because that’s going to give you… You’re going to be able to compete with other folks, right? They’re going to listen to you. They’re going to see you. They’re going to believe in you and champion you. And we have to make sure that we’re doing that for the younger people that’s coming after us.

Chris Riback: Thank you for sharing your story.

Demetrus Coonrod: Absolutely.

Chris Riback: Thank you for visiting us at the Early Learning Nation Studio.

Demetrus Coonrod: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you.

Chris Riback: Hi, welcome to the studio. Thank you for coming.

Victoria Farrar-Myers: Thank you for having me.

Chris Riback: So my first question is, should I be calling you Council Member Farrar-Myers, Mayor Pro Tem Farrar-Myers, or do you prefer Doc FM?

Victoria Farrar-Myers: Well, my students would say Doc FM, right?

Chris Riback: I’ve heard that.

Victoria Farrar-Myers: Yes. You could just say Victoria is fine.

Chris Riback: Okay. We’ll go with Victoria. But I got to say I was really looking forward to Doc FM, but I’ll stick with-

Victoria Farrar-Myers: Well, if you’d like that, that’s fine.

Chris Riback: I’ll stick with Victoria.

Victoria Farrar-Myers: I’ve answered to that for 25 years. It’s good.

Chris Riback: Describe Arlington for me, if you would. What’s the community like, and what are the biggest challenges sitting between Dallas and Fort Worth?

Victoria Farrar-Myers: Well, certainly. Arlington is 99 square miles. It’s got 393,000 people, which to any other place would seem like a large city.

Chris Riback: It’s a large city.

Victoria Farrar-Myers: It’s smack dab between, we’re the 48th largest city, but smack dab between Dallas and Fort Worth, obviously get a little overlooked, but Arlington certainly has in the last six years I’ve been in council, we’ve done so much in terms of adding a lot to our entertainment center. But certainly we have a large University of Texas at Arlington is now an R1. We have a feeder school, Tarrant County College, that’s feeding a lot of our student population. We’re seeing a lot of growth.

Chris Riback: What’s the state of early childhood learning in Arlington?

Victoria Farrar-Myers: We’re trying to catch up, frankly. The fact that we’re just adding pre-K now is a little disconcerting, really what we’re working on though with the city, and some of the other initiatives is zero to three, because as you know, all the brain synapses you’ll ever develop is in that area of time. We want to really get our students a good head start by getting in there.

Chris Riback: Tell me what you’re doing zero to three. Then I want to ask you about how are you getting it done. But first, what are you doing?

Victoria Farrar-Myers: Sure. Well, one of the things we’re doing is converting some of our old childcare centers and particular school centers to be for zero to three. More infant centers, which has been innovative in the way we’re using our old resources to tackle this particular problem.

Chris Riback: Smart.

Victoria Farrar-Myers: So that’s one of the things that we’ve been doing. How we got it done, we have an Arlington Tomorrow Foundation, which years ago, some brilliant council members prior to me, decided to take all our gas well money and invest it into a Tomorrow Foundation. And through that, we’ve been able to give some strategic funding to these areas.

Chris Riback: In some ways you touched on this, but beyond your public service role, you have a PhD in political science.

Victoria Farrar-Myers: I do.

Chris Riback: I believe it is. You taught at UT Arlington for a number of years. You’re now in the city council among other roles. What should the relationship be between government and local capabilities and early childhood learning? What’s the role for local government?

Victoria Farrar-Myers: Well, you think about local governments are interested in workforce development. They’re also interested in how to make sure you have a well-educated, for economic development purposes, right, a well-educated workforce. How do you do that? You’ve got to do that, and you can’t just start at the college level. You’ve got to start earlier working with your ISDs, and you have to start really, if you really want to make an impact in the earliest, so that zero to three.

It’s really, as we put, I think a lot of people call it cradle to career. I think that’s a perspective we really are trying to take in Arlington to try to figure out, how do we allow that pipeline to be so smooth so that our students don’t just attend our university and leave our city, but become part of that very healthy, vibrant workforce that will attract businesses, that will attract a vibrant community and who better to want a city to move to. All of us are trying to compete with each other, whether it’s economic development or whether it’s residency. We really want to make sure that we have that dynamic environment for our kids, for our parents of today and for our kids of tomorrow.

Chris Riback: How has the business community reacted to your efforts?

Victoria Farrar-Myers: Very well actually. Our Chamber of Commerce has been extremely innovative in terms of educational outreach. We’ve had a lot of good entrepreneurship programs. We’ve started a consortium of entrepreneurship programs. We’ve also been working in providing apprenticeships as well as providing ongoing initiatives at the lower level, so not just high school, but really reaching down in the sixth, seventh and eighth, that middle years where you tend to lose the learners. Then also most recently, T3, which the Rainwater Foundation started. It’s Tarrant County two and through. Arlington, Texas is in Tarrant County. We’re starting to see some innovative programs where parents are starting to be involved as well. We’re one of the most diverse cities in the nation. We’re really trying to get to parents as well to show parents that this is a way for you to better a lot of first generational students. This is why it’s higher ed, maybe not [inaudible], but maybe it’s career formation. We’re seeing a lot of innovations.

Chris Riback: How are you getting through to them and with them? I think that’s something that a lot of communities want to do, may have some challenges with. Particularly now coming out of COVID, all parents have so many challenges, health, environment, education. How do you get through to them to inspire them that put more energy here?

Victoria Farrar-Myers: I think you made a great point. Prior to COVID, I was working on workforce and childcare and early learning, and they seem to be, I don’t want to say pedestrian issues, but they seemed like perennial issues that everyone just said, “Oh, cities have those issues.” Now post COVID, they’ve become red hot and red centered. Full-on center. A lot of people are looking at it going, “Oh, wait a minute. We really got to go back to the basics.” One of the things I think is we’ve got to establish a trust and also a conversation at the early levels. What I mean by that is not just assume or presume that we know what parents need or what schools need, but also really open up conversations and dialogue. One of the things I will say that pandemic has done for us is open up opportunities for innovations like no other because people are looking for different ways to do things.

The old way just doesn’t work. Going back to the old way is just going to create old issues. Why not take what could be a really negative piece of our history, and you and I both know there’s going to be reverberations for education is going to be for decades to come. How do we not lose these generations?

But then how do we also make sure that we prepare for the next generation? It’s learning. It’s teacher support. It’s innovative ways the business environment can be involved with it. I think it creates more ownership though because businesses are like, well, we’re not getting workforce ready students. Well, help us figure that out with you and help us, okay, by the way, when you’re doing that, help us create an internship program or an externship program or apprenticeship. Then there’s a real buy-in. Then I think one of the things that a lot of parents say to me is, “You’ve made it real now for me. I can see the reality of the future.” It’s not just a thing that we talk about or something that’s going to be expensive, but we understand why the investment needs to be there.

Chris Riback: What a super point. I agree with you. People are more open-minded now to new ideas. We know that after what we’ve gone through, we need new ways to try just about everything. What’s next?

Victoria Farrar-Myers: A lot of work. It’s figuring out what are the most, I think, I’m a problem solver in something, looking at early wins. What kinds of things can we adjust really quickly to get people feeling like, okay, we can do this. Then looking at the longer term picture and try that cradle to grave seems a little bit, or the cradle to career. It just seems so daunting. How can we look at those pieces? Zero to three, how do we focus there? What are the main needs? K through 12 and the seamless transition to post-secondary degrees, what are the main transition periods there? How do we listen to businesses and figure out how can we work with the higher education institutions to figure out, do I need more computer scientists?

Chris Riback: Yes.

Victoria Farrar-Myers: Or to put myself here? Do we need political scientists? Maybe not so. But that’s okay. I think it’s really having some of those really frank discussions about what it is we need to move forward. Cybersecurity is a huge issue, but yet we don’t have a lot of students who are getting into data analytics. I teach statistics. Most of my students don’t want to be in my class. Yet what I talk to them about is this is one of the best skills that I can teach you.

How do we make it real? For years, I’ve always struggled to try to make it real for my students to answer the why. What’s in it for me? Why is it so important to be in front of me in my classes? We’re just doing that with parents now. We’re doing that with educators now. We’re doing that with our business community. We’re doing that to tell the story economically for our cities. So cities can convene. I’m not saying cities are going to solve the problem, but we have to be integral partners to be able to convene a lot of the dot connectors of this process. I think that’s really where I see the future going.

Chris Riback: Well. I hear that connecting from you, Victoria, Doc FM. Thank you so much for joining us.

Victoria Farrar-Myers: Thank you. It was a pleasure speaking with you today.

Chris Riback: Giana, thank you so much for joining us at the studio.

Giana Rocha: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited.

Chris Riback: I am, too. Tell me about yourself. What year are you in school, and what are your interests.

Giana Rocha: Yes, of course. So my name is Giana Rocha. I’m a senior at Brighton high school in Colorado, and I’m extremely passionate about authentic youth engagement and giving back to my community.

Chris Riback: What is authentic youth engagement? What does that look like?

Giana Rocha: Yes, of course. So authentic youth engagement just looks like the youth being engaged civically, and giving back to their community, and the adults giving them the pathway, and partnering with them in youth adult partnerships to make sure that they have the access to tools that they need to be involved and make a change.

Chris Riback: And what type of change are you looking for? Infrastructure, environment, education, opportunity, criminal justice reform, what are the areas that you’re interested in?

Giana Rocha: Something I’m super passionate about, and especially within Brighton, Colorado is suicide prevention and mental health awareness. In Brighton, Colorado, I’m a part of the Brighton Youth Commission, and I’ve served as a chair for the past two years. We host a local suicide prevention initiative called SPEAK. SPEAK stands for suicide prevention education, awareness, and knowledge. It’s a week worth of education and knowledge implemented in local schools to help break down the stigma surrounding mental health. And then at the end of each week, we host a 5k walk to help promote community engagement and make sure that everyone feels like they can be involved and that their voices being heard.

Chris Riback: Does mental health feel like a growing problem right now?

Giana Rocha: Especially right now, I believe so. Yes. After coming back from the pandemic, I’ve seen it myself, and within my community, within my schools, how impacted our young people in our community has just been after the pandemic and coming out of a virtual setting. So I’ve been definitely seen it grow and be a bigger issue within our communities. I’m extremely passionate about it, and I’m so honored to be involved, and be a part of SPEAK week, and to hopefully lead the way towards change, and lead the way towards saving lives.

Chris Riback: Do youths, kids your age, is there a feeling that there isn’t a place to turn? Is there a feeling that my problems are too big and nobody’s going to understand? What’s the opportunity that kids need?

Giana Rocha: Speaking from personal experience, I struggled my own mental health, and SPEAK was a huge thing that helped me cope and helped me realize that I wasn’t alone. So my motto is no one should ever feel alone. And I definitely think that SPEAK helps me elevate that and expand that belief. I definitely think a lot of our generation feels like they are alone in their struggles. And I think SPEAK just helps them show that it’s not as uncommon as it may seem.

Chris Riback: On these councils that you are in, in the work that you’ve done in Brighton with SPEAK, you work with a lot of adults. What do adults not on understand? What do we not get?

Giana Rocha: I definitely think, over the years, it has changed immensely. Coming into the roles I have come into, about five years ago, I joined the Brighton Youth Commission, I was under the impression that the adults never wanted to hear my voice, and that it was a very one sided street in that they just wanted to teach us and nothing like that. But I definitely have seen a huge turnaround, and seen a lot of adults coming towards me and asking me for my opinion, giving me a seat at the table. I definitely think that’s a huge asset.

Coming out of the global pandemic, we’ve seen a certain shift. I wish that adults would still have the same trust in us. Coming out of the global pandemic, I think that trust has been lost. They haven’t seen young people in environments like this. They haven’t seen young people striving and being the amazing people that we are. And I think a lot of that trust has been lost. So if I were to ask one thing of adults is to trust us, and to know that we’ve done this before, and to give us that same pathway that they once gave us before. And we will surprise you for sure.

Chris Riback: Actually, I don’t know that I would be surprised. Now that I’m getting you to talk with you, my expectations are super high, but I understand.

Giana Rocha: That’s exciting. Yes.

Chris Riback: I’ll be impressed. I might not be surprised. And what would you say to middle schoolers or even maybe younger than that? As I was learning a little bit about you from this conversation, one thing that did surprise me, you felt like you didn’t fit in middle school. Seeing your personality right now, it’s hard to imagine you not fitting in someplace. Why did you feel that? And what would you say to middle schoolers now?

Giana Rocha: So middle school, of course, is a tough time for everyone. And personally, I face a lot of issues with my own identity, going to a predominantly white charter school, and feeling like I was left out of the conversation a lot of times, and felt like I was looked down upon. And it was really hard for me to find my voice and find a pathway for me to succeed. From a young age, I always knew that I wanted be a part of something bigger than myself. And I definitely think what I would say to young people, especially middle school, is there is a way, there is a pathway. You just need to look for it. You just need to make sure that you keep using your voice and keep asking questions.

A lot of the times, especially as a young woman, people look down upon you for asking questions or you feel like you can’t ask questions, but you need to. You need to ask questions and ask the right questions to get further in life. I definitely think finding a good community is a huge asset. The Brighton Youth Commission, at first, was just a place for me to feel welcome, and for me to find people that I identified with, and found people that valued my voice, and then it turned into so much more. So if that looks like drama for you, if it looks like sports, if it looks like getting civically involved, you just need to find that, and find something that you feel you can thrive in, and that you feel really fits you, and will help you immensely.

Chris Riback: What do your parents say about the path that you’re on?

Giana Rocha: My parents are extremely proud of me, and I’m so honored to have lived through them and lived on their legacy. As a first generation student, it is really inspiring to see my parents say such amazing things about me. They completely encourage me and have supported me every step of the way. Coming to Washington DC and doing those things. At the beginning, it was a little rocky coming from a traditionally Mexican American home. My dad was like, “You’re going where?” So it was a battle there, but now they support me completely, and make sure that I have the tools I need to succeed.

Chris Riback: And what’s next for you?

Giana Rocha: Finishing out senior year has been definitely bittersweet after coming from this global pandemic. It feels like I’m not supposed to be here. It feels like I missed so much. And it’s been a really interesting journey stepping into the senior position, and saying goodbye to a lot of my roles, and finishing a lot of things out this way. But next, I definitely do foresee myself pursuing a career in politics, hopefully, attending a university in the fall to pursue political science. I haven’t committed to any colleges yet, but I’m definitely hoping to do that soon.

Chris Riback: The bidding is still open for you?

Giana Rocha: Yes, sir.

Chris Riback: Okay. They’ll all compete, Giana, thank you. Thank you for the work you do in your community and for joining us in the studio.

Giana Rocha: Of course. Thank you so much for inviting me, and having me, and giving me the opportunity to share my story, and hopefully elevate other youth voices to one day change the world.

Chris Riback: Councilmember Lightfoot. Thank you so much for joining us at the ELN Studio.

Willie Lightfoot: Thank you for having me.

Chris Riback: Glad to have you. What in the world does a barber shop have to do with helping address early childhood learning or reducing violence or doing anything other than helping some of us look better than we have a right to?

Willie Lightfoot: Right. I think barbershops historically have been places of trust, places of… that mostly oftentimes they transcend generations. People normally don’t change their spiritual leader, their doctor and their barber or beautician. So-

Chris Riback: Not necessarily in that order.

Willie Lightfoot: Right, right. I mean, oftentimes we as barbers, we tend to be the first interaction that young people have in the rites of passage of becoming a young man or a young woman, if you will. And so we have that relationship. And we live in an environment where everything is about relationships. And so I think barbers and beauticians play a huge role in every community in the world and the impact they have on early learning and on people’s first interactions with having relationship building and being able to talk to individuals within the community.

Chris Riback: Really describe that for me. Make it tangible. I’m a two year old boy, I’m a four year old girl, and I come in. And what happens? What’s the experience like for me?

Willie Lightfoot: Well, I mean, first of all, getting your first haircut is a very memorable moment for not only the child, but also for the family and the parent. And so I can’t tell you how many times over the years I’ve filled out first haircut certificates for families, for a kid, one, two years old, that’s getting their first haircut. So that interaction is huge, and-

Chris Riback: That builds the trust, I would assume.

Willie Lightfoot: Absolutely.

Chris Riback: How do you use that opportunity to advance childhood learning?

Willie Lightfoot: So what we’ve done in Rochester, through the last administration, we created a program where we were doing books, Storytime with Styles, for kids. We have books in every shop or participating shops where children and families, when they came in, they were allowed to take a book for free from the library.

Chris Riback: Almost like a library.

Willie Lightfoot: Absolutely. So while they’re there waiting for a haircut. We’ve had opportunities where parents are reading to their children while they’re waiting, which is huge when it comes to early learning, having that experience of being read to, and in an environment that’s outside of the classroom. It’s in the community. So you’re getting so much in that experience. You’re getting interaction with your community. You’re getting the experience of working with your family member in the outside environment, outside of your home, and/or outside of the classroom, which just has a tremendous impact on development.

Chris Riback: How powerful, because it also must send the message that reading is not just a school thing. It’s not work. It’s part of what you do in everyday life. It’s what you do when you’re with your mom or dad. It’s what you do when you go to the barber. Reading is just part of life and learning is just part of life.

Willie Lightfoot: Absolutely. And also when we look at the barbershops and your first initial question was how they impact not only early learning, but violence and things of that nature.

Chris Riback: Yes, yes.

Willie Lightfoot: And so we are also utilizing barbershops and salons to deal with healthcare disparities, also to put out information around violence within our community. We opened up the first barbershop in the Rochester City School District. We were able to go in and mentor young people. We give them a haircut for free. We’re mentoring them. We’re talking to them about issues that they’re going through throughout society and different things that are coming up in their lives, which is giving them alternatives to making bad decisions and choices. Because we as entrepreneurs and business owners are allowing ourselves to interact with them on a positive note to hopefully curve some of the violence within our community. And also created a program called Cut the Violence, where we go out and do free haircuts, toys, gifts, connect parents and families with resources within the community.

Chris Riback: Yes. I’ve gotten to read a bit about some of the incredible work that you’ve done. I know that it’s an important passion of yours. How do you connect those two passions? How do you connect advancing early learning with violence that could occur at later stages in a child’s life?

Willie Lightfoot: All roads lead back to education, period. Every role leads back to education. So the more that we can impact the child’s life, the earlier that we can impact that child’s life in a positive way, the better chance they have at becoming a productive citizen in our community. And so with the barber shop, that’s just one tool of many, I believe, that helps to reach them a very early stage in their life. Because again, most families are bringing that young man to the barbershop at a very young age, and then they tend to keep coming back. So there is someone that you’re going to have interaction with maybe twice a month, sometimes once a week, depending on their ability to be able to afford to cut.

And by us doing free haircut, we’re taking that barrier away of how often you can come, because we’re allowing… doing this for free. So we’re interjecting that early learning into them, not just about things that they would normally learn in school, but about life skills, which is very important, especially in regards to this generation, which tends to be the Google generation, which they’re not really getting the life skills, one-on-one, hands-on that our generation received.

Chris Riback: To close, Councilmember, and I realize this might not be specific to early childhood learning, but I bet with you everything connects, what does it mean to do it anyway?

Willie Lightfoot: Regardless of the situations in our community, regardless of how dim things often sometimes can look… I’m in a very challenging community that my barbershop is in and that I represent. Oftentimes, things get dim and you often think that nothing’s making a difference. You’re not making a change. You’re not moving the needle. And sometimes that can get discouraging. And so do it anyway is saying, hey, regardless of how it may look like, regardless of what the headlines say, regardless of what you may feel from time to time, that the positive and the love and the positive things that are inside of you, do them anyway. Because ultimately, they’re making a difference in our community that oftentimes we can’t quantify or qualify how many lives we’re saving by being positive, regardless of sometimes the over-negative that we’re seeing in our community.

So just do it anyway. Be positive anyway, regardless of what is happening around us when we turn the television on, when we read the news, and of course when we’re in the barbershop having conversations. Oftentimes negativity seems to overshadow the positive, so I always tell folks, “Do it anyway. Be positive regardless of what others are doing.”

Chris Riback: Councilmember Lightfoot, I had the opportunity to read about you before this. I’ve now gotten to talk with you. You did it anyway, didn’t you?

Willie Lightfoot: Yes. And continue.

Chris Riback: I know you will. Thank you. Thank you for what you do for your community. Thank you for joining us in the ELN Studio.

Willie Lightfoot: Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.